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| Rant; here | |
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| Topic Started: Sep 26 2009, 08:02 PM (1,003 Views) | |
| Marc | Sep 26 2009, 08:02 PM Post #1 |
Waiting for the punchline
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I wanted to moan but didn't think it deserved a thread of its own, so I thought a general-purpose grumble thread would fit the bill. At the moment, reviews of Fifa 10 are sending me into enraged spasms. They are waxing lyrical about the freedom of 360-degree movement, of how it finally unlocks the pitch and how it allows the game to be played as a football game should be played etc... Did none of these people play ISS 64 or '98? Are reviewers really that stupid and ignorant? Read them, just read them. Idiots. |
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| Malc | Sep 27 2009, 09:45 AM Post #2 |
I Like eggs.
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But 1998 was last millennium, it's hardly relevant now! I think they did the right thing by ignoring them... On a more serious note, some games that we grew up with are probably beyond the ken of 90% (made up stat) of the industry and it's readership. |
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| Dumpster | Sep 27 2009, 10:53 AM Post #3 |
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True - I remember a documentary about the remake of Psycho (shot for shot remake of the original movie). People my age were thinking "what's the point". Teenagers never heard of the original, and wouldn't consider going to see a film in black and white. Same thing here I reckon - the mass market is a different group of people to those who played ISS 10 years ago. |
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| jonarob | Sep 27 2009, 01:44 PM Post #4 |
Shriveled Member
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Did ISS 64 have proper 360 movement, or was it just something they said in marketing because it used the 64's analogue stick? Genuine question - I can't say I noticed at the time. (Also, ISS64/98 are still my favourite football games ever ever.) edit: What I'm trying to say is, and I'm not sticking up for rubbish journalism here, but if I were reviewing Fifa 10 right now, I too would probably be praising its 360 movement, because having played the demo, it really does make a difference. I also wouldn't have referred to ISS 64, because despite spending serious amounts of time playing it (and loving it), it was so long ago that I can't even recall if it had 360 movement or not. And to be fair, every major football game since (that's a lot of football games) have had 8-way movement AFAIK. So, a standard for many years has been improved - why should it be necessary to mention that ISS 64 did it first 10 years ago? IIRC, barely anybody bought it any way (and therefore probably wouldn't give a shit about the reference), what with FIFA on the PS1 being the game of choice at the time. Edited by jonarob, Sep 27 2009, 01:52 PM.
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| RevStu | Sep 27 2009, 01:56 PM Post #5 |
Laird/Beast Of Glencairn
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Hang on - analogue-era football games DON'T have 360-degree movement? |
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| jonarob | Sep 27 2009, 02:00 PM Post #6 |
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Shriveled Member
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Apparently not! To be honest, it's not something I'd even picked up on until all of this talk about FIFA 10 having 360 movement, and having played the demo, it genuinely does make a difference. Perhaps that's why there hasn't been a decent football game since ISS 64. |
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| jonarob | Sep 27 2009, 02:04 PM Post #7 |
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Shriveled Member
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BTW Stu, you might want to take a quick look at the Drop7 Hardcore mode leaderboard.  Er, ignore the others. |
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| Marc | Sep 28 2009, 07:50 AM Post #8 |
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Waiting for the punchline
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It did. You only have to try dribbling through a defence to realise that it only takes the slightest touch on the stick to evade a slide tackle, with no pre-determined animation patterns to get in the way. Anyway, you've all shot me down in flames for my pissant little moan so I'll be quiet now. 
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| jonarob | Sep 28 2009, 12:12 PM Post #9 |
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Shriveled Member
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 I can totally see your side of the argument with regards to rubbish reviews, but looking at it from the point of view of a games journalist personally, I don't think I would've referred back to ISS64 myself, even though I (liked to think at least) had a more than thorough knowledge of the game. |
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| Marc | Sep 28 2009, 12:23 PM Post #10 |
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Waiting for the punchline
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I can see what you're driving at and normally, I'd agree, reviews aren't written by gamers for gamers anymore. Surely though, when you're making a claim about a 'revolutionary' feature, literally heralding it as a first in a footballs game, you're obliged to check the facts first? It's not a throwaway comment, it's the crux of the two reviews i've seen at present. |
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| jonarob | Sep 28 2009, 12:36 PM Post #11 |
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Shriveled Member
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Good point! I may not have held it as a true "world-first revolution in football games", I probably would've been noncommittal and said "it's right good!". |
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| Marc | Sep 28 2009, 01:23 PM Post #12 |
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Waiting for the punchline
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As of course, you'd be obliged to check your spelling and grammar before referring to 'footballs' games. Ah well. The game does look very nice in fairness, though it's a no-go for me unless they have fixed the cheating bastard CPU opposition. |
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| Tom Camfield | Sep 28 2009, 01:40 PM Post #13 |
Spaceman Moses
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What's the deal with shooting in the new FIFA? ISS64 didn't have 360 shooting. Something weird was going on with ISS64, I think when you took a shot, the direction you pointed in was something like the part of the net you wanted to hit, or something. Anyways, it was weird, and often the shot went in the completely wrong direction to the way the stick was pointing. Edit: like, if you pointed to the top left, you'd try to hit the top left of the goal, even if the goal was actually to the bottom right of the screen. Edited by Tom Camfield, Sep 28 2009, 01:41 PM.
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| Marc | Sep 28 2009, 01:49 PM Post #14 |
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Waiting for the punchline
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Yeah, it let you aim directly at the net, something else no modern football game has managed. I mean, I'm supposed to be playing a pro football player. It shouldn't be a struggle to get my player to even aim in the right fucking direction, surely?
Edited by Marc, Sep 28 2009, 02:41 PM.
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| Cadmium Lemon | Sep 28 2009, 03:59 PM Post #15 |
#$%&*!
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Actua Soccer let you aim your shots properly. It was my multiplayer football game of choice for years for that sole reason, what with everything else about it being utter, utter shite. Still, being able to pick your spot from thirty yards made up for all the badness, just.
Edited by Cadmium Lemon, Sep 28 2009, 03:59 PM.
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| xbendystevex | Sep 28 2009, 04:16 PM Post #16 |
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Three Lions let you aim your shots didn't it? With like, a proper target and everything.
Edited by xbendystevex, Sep 28 2009, 04:16 PM.
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| jonarob | Sep 28 2009, 04:41 PM Post #17 |
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Shriveled Member
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Yeah a little bullseye popped up, although I'm pretty sure Three Lions was an "officially endorsed" re-hash of Actua Soccer. Could be wrong, like. edit: I am wrong! Actua Soccer was a Gremlin game. They were pretty similar though. Edited by jonarob, Sep 28 2009, 04:43 PM.
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| Tom Camfield | Oct 27 2009, 11:50 AM Post #18 |
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Spaceman Moses
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Grr, anyone played FIFA 10 yet? I just had a quick go of the demo and it seemed about as lame as FIFA 09*. However, most importantly, why does 1UP write something elegant like this: http://www.1up.com/do/reviewPage?cId=3176575 While Eurogamer come up with a three page wankathon without reference to all the problems the 1UP team have found: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/fifa-10-review So, given that Eurogamer doesn't seem at all trustworthy, is any new version of PES worth a try? * If anyone can make my wingers stay up the pitch in FIFA 09 I will happily and momentarily reverse my judgement, but with all the tweakings I've done, I still can't get Aaron Lennon to stay up the bloody pitch to be unleashed with a long ball. |
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| Futureshock | Oct 27 2009, 01:06 PM Post #19 |
I need sugar.
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I was sad enough to spend yesterday playing the demos of FIFA and PES...they're both just okay. Being cursed with a love of ISS98 means these new games can leave you exasperated at the stupidity of some crucial design choices, but they're fine as long as you compensate and lower expectations. After all, it's not like these new versions are worse than the last ten iterations. |
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| Marc | Oct 27 2009, 01:57 PM Post #20 |
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Waiting for the punchline
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Like, say, the removal of a simple and useful through ball, and the ability to pass in the exact direction you wish to? Neither of which PES has had since! If someone could just take the general ISS template and give it a little more weight and substance, you'd have the perfect footy game I reckon. |
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| Futureshock | Oct 27 2009, 02:08 PM Post #21 |
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I need sugar.
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To be fair, PES uses the right stick to kick the ball in the direction of choice. It takes a little practice, but is does raise a smile when you sprint down the wing towards the touchline and whip in a fast, low ball across the face of the goal. But yeah, both games lack the fluidity and responsiveness of ISS98 - they always have, so I don't see things changing anytime soon. |
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| Tom Camfield | Oct 27 2009, 05:22 PM Post #22 |
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Spaceman Moses
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I would just be happy if Messi could somehow get past the Chicago back four, especially when my own back four seem unable to outrun Brian McBride. I was quite happy with PES...5, I think, where the players exhibited some sense, and any tactical tweakings actually had an influence on the field. Then there was a really bad PES where they decided that if the goalkeepers and defenders made lots of mistakes which was just annoying if you played a defensive game (like me). So now it's time to check on PES 2010, which I'm told actually has Ghana in it, unlike FIFA 10. |
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| Tom Camfield | Oct 28 2009, 04:33 AM Post #23 |
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Spaceman Moses
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... And the demo of PES 2010 plays so much better than the demo of FIFA 10. I think I shall buy PES 2010 rather than FIFA 10 for these reasons: 1. The wingers push up the pitch to latch on to through balls, they even run overlaps. 2. The defence falls back to cover gaps you've opened up when you drag a man wide to chase a ball down. 3. The AI makes legitimate mistakes, like heading into it's own net (chortle) when you put a fast cross in. In FIFA 10, when I tried to get my keeper to throw the ball out to my defence, he threw it off the pitch. 4. Despite the game animation feeling as if it's about to break at any moment, it feels much more fluid, and much less lethargic than FIFA 10. Finally, I've had more fun playing the demo of PES 2010 than I have playing through FIFA 09, and PES 2010 has Ghana in it, so I think I shall purchase PES 2010 and once again go against the recommendation of the majority, sigh. |
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| Futureshock | Oct 28 2009, 05:00 AM Post #24 |
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I need sugar.
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I'm feeling the PES demo over FIFA too. It's got a pleasing solidity about it, don't you think? FIFA is a little fluffy in comparison. Fluffy football from FIFA. |
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| Tom Camfield | Oct 28 2009, 02:00 PM Post #25 |
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Spaceman Moses
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I like the alliteration! As far as the actual game mechanics go: spot on. FIFA does feel fluffy and empty and a bit brainless, while PES is much more solid, with players tracking back or overlapping, and every cross hit quick and low and every header really cracking off skulls. (I especially like the way PES understands that if you hit the ball really hard, that doesn't actually mean you have to hit it high in the air too, so you can twat every shot, within reason.) You could go the other way though; FIFA feels solid and bulky and slow and dull, whereas PES feels fluffy and breakable but quick and exciting. As far as preferences go, it's PES for me, sir. |
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4:12 PM Nov 25
