Cheating Quiz Machines

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Cheating Quiz Machines; Time for a new Fairplay Campaign
Topic Started: Sep 16 2009, 08:42 PM (8,663 Views)
Dumpster	Sep 16 2009, 08:42 PM Post #1
Posts: 981 Group: Lapsed Member #190 Joined: March 18, 2004 Football bias: Football is shit. The best videogame ever is: Resident Evil 4 A good name for a band would be: Brownsnake	I thought I would report this here, as it is of interest to those who followed the "cheating fruit machines" fairplay campaign. You will need a version of MAME and the roms for JPM's Hangman quiz machine, the same machine that my local pub still has. If you get a question you don't know the answer to, you can press P to pause, Alt-Tab to Google, and find the answer. What they don't tell you is that your general knowledge skills play no part in this - the machine's just as fixed as a fruit machine, and it's not going to pay out if it does not want to. As you get nearer the prize money, the system asks some phenomenally difficult questions, which even Google doesn't know the answers to! So now, we need to cheat. Activate Mame cheats and enter the following: 0040063a = 01 - always have try again options, so never get any questions wrong. Now, you will find you can't lose on the questions, so the machine will give you the most difficult hangman words to guess... so we need to cheat here too: 0040063c = 03 - Always have 3 pieces of the hangman so never fail The next problem you will experience is the machine will give you such a tiny amount of time to guess the answers that you can't even read the question in time.... so you will need to pause quickly (seriously, you get about 1 second to read the question and make your guess). Keep cheating, and watch the incredible number of hoops the machine will jump through in order to make you lose. It's really funny, especially when it's asking you questions that you can't even find answers to on the internet.... Try to win 2 jackpots in a row and watch the machine go crazy. It makes no difference how much general knowledge you have, these machines are impossible to win on if the machine has just paid out.... Enjoy!



Chopsticks	Sep 17 2009, 08:10 AM Post #2
Posts: 1,506 Group: Lapsed Member #422 Joined: November 14, 2004	This has pretty much always been the case with SWPs, and it's not helped by the fact that they're not governed by the same laws as fruit machines, hence they often have a minimum payout of around 50%, as opposed to the 72% you'll get by statute on AWPs. (SWP = Skill With Prizes, AWP = Amusements With Prizes.) It's also the reason that in years gone by, SWPs had much bigger jackpots than AWPs, back in the early 90s the maximum jackpot on AWPs was Ł6 in tokens, Ł3 in cash, and yet SWPs were offering Ł20 in cash. The argument was that as they were skill, they weren't gambling like their AWP cousins. The obvious issue here is that a machine with a Ł20 jackpot that costs 50p per play, can't be paying out a jackpot every game, so the designers have always fudged them in all sorts of inventive ways. Really, really obscure questions are the most obvious one, as are all the other tactics you've mentioned. The best way to look at SWPs is as a form of entertainment, and that if you get your money back or win a few quid, it's a bonus, and that basically you're paying to play. Even the most recent SWPs blatantly cheat when they 'need' to, the Bullseye game for instance has a pseudo-skill prize board, and it will just always do a miss shot on the prize board until you get a question wrong when it doesn't want to pay anything out.



Cadmium Lemon	Sep 22 2009, 10:44 AM Post #3
#$%&*! Posts: 6,101 Group: Star Members Member #88 Joined: January 11, 2004 Football bias: Chelsea/Barnet The best videogame ever is: Paradroid A good name for a band would be: Grisly Axolotl Torture	Chopsticks Sep 17 2009, 08:10 AM Even the most recent SWPs blatantly cheat when they 'need' to, the Bullseye game for instance has a pseudo-skill prize board, and it will just always do a miss shot on the prize board until you get a question wrong when it doesn't want to pay anything out. Is that a true thing? Damn. That's my favourite quiz machine variant, and I've played it a lot. I never expected it to be fair, obviously, but I didn't think it would be quite that rigged. Of course, the target moves so fast on the "skill game" that it's impossible to spot any dodginess. Has anyone documented the fix on that machine? If you've got a link, I'd love to see it.



VinylPusher	Sep 22 2009, 12:29 PM Post #4
Posts: 1,275 Group: Lapsed Member #573 Joined: July 27, 2005 The best videogame ever is: Fallout 3 A good name for a band would be: Elephant Penis	I've not bothered to keep up with current fruit-machine events but I do recall that repeat chances (i.e. you've won the jackpot, now you get a repeat chance through a skill shot) lawfully have to be 50/50. That's all I have to add to the subject. Sorry. Edited by VinylPusher, Sep 22 2009, 12:30 PM.



Captain Caveman	Sep 24 2009, 07:45 AM Post #5
Advanced Member Posts: 2,094 Group: Banned Member #532 Joined: May 23, 2005	Chopsticks Sep 17 2009, 08:10 AM This has pretty much always been the case with SWPs Hmm, I'm not sure that's actually the case old chap; I'm old enough to well remember the early days of SWP 'quiz machines' like JPM Give Us A Break, and IIRC these always gave the same amount of time to answer questions regardless, albeit no doubt the perceived difficulty of the questions was altered according to the amount the machine had paid out. The net result was that, if you had a reasonably good standard of general knowledge, it was usually possible to play these machines for an hour or so and walk away a tenner or more up (in 1987 money). I remember some geezer from JPM being interviewed on Radio 1 at the time; (again IIRC) he said that these were 'true skill' games whereby there was nothing to stop a very knowledgeable and/or lucky person from basically emptying them at any time. Effectively, this appeared to be the risk the machine operator had to take on in siting these games, just as a bookie runs the risk of a knowledgeable punter picking multiple winners or whatever - these SWPs were specifically not predetermined outcome, controlled type fruities. Now however, it would appear that all that has gone out of the window? The entire 'operator risk' element has been effectively removed through various 'cheat' mechanisms, to such an extent that it would appear quite impossible to win on a modern day SWP that had already 'made percentage'. In that case however, I fail to see how it can still be called a true skill game, since irrespective of how much 'true skill' is exercised on the part of the hapless punter, he will never win a single penny in such circumstances? Disgraceful if true IMO, but hardly surprising. Quote: I've not bothered to keep up with current fruit-machine events but I do recall that repeat chances (i.e. you've won the jackpot, now you get a repeat chance through a skill shot) lawfully have to be 50/50. Me neither as I haven't played for 7 years now bar one relapse 5 years ago (thank fuck), but the very thought of a true 50/50 repeat chance every time on the Ł15JP AWPs I was playing back then (and subsequently emulated), was/is laughable? No idea about the modern stuff; Chopsticks might be able to shed some light here. Edited by Captain Caveman, Sep 24 2009, 07:45 AM.



Marc	Sep 24 2009, 08:56 AM Post #6
Waiting for the punchline Posts: 2,083 Group: Subscribers Member #769 Joined: January 26, 2006 Football bias: slowly loosing interest The best videogame ever is: Street Fighter II Hyper Fighting	Captain Caveman Sep 24 2009, 07:45 AM Me neither as I haven't played for 7 years now bar one relapse 5 years ago (thank fuck), but the very thought of a true 50/50 repeat chance every time on the Ł15JP AWPs I was playing back then (and subsequently emulated), was/is laughable? No idea about the modern stuff; Chopsticks might be able to shed some light here. Get a bit out of hand at some point did it Cavey?



BikNorton	Sep 24 2009, 01:12 PM Post #7
Posts: 896 Group: Members Member #1,484 Joined: June 27, 2007	If the machine's cheating/rigged then skill is irrelevant so it can't be SWP, surely? Or to say it another way, if it's advertised as skill-based and then cheats, it's false and/or misleading advertising. Edited by BikNorton, Sep 24 2009, 01:13 PM.



Captain Caveman	Sep 24 2009, 03:44 PM Post #8
Advanced Member Posts: 2,094 Group: Banned Member #532 Joined: May 23, 2005	Marc Sep 24 2009, 08:56 AM Captain Caveman Sep 24 2009, 07:45 AM Me neither as I haven't played for 7 years now bar one relapse 5 years ago (thank fuck), but the very thought of a true 50/50 repeat chance every time on the Ł15JP AWPs I was playing back then (and subsequently emulated), was/is laughable? No idea about the modern stuff; Chopsticks might be able to shed some light here. Get a bit out of hand at some point did it Cavey? Oh yes, most certainly, I'm very ashamed to say. Not exactly my finest hour. If I'm being generous, I guess you could argue that I was 'only' a half-addict. I mean, the mortgage was always paid on time, there was food on the table and the utilities weren't cut off at any point. Scant consolation perhaps, but you believe me things could have been even worse than was the case for me, and latterly my hapless wife and kids also. Let me put it this way: I couldn't even countenance going into a pub, chip shop or minicab waiting room without duly playing any fruit machines that were present, even if ridiculously inappropriate to do so and notwithstanding the fact that my dear wife loathed them even to the extent of threatening to leave me on numerous occasions. Even if every card that both I and my wife owned was maxed out and our joint account grossly overdrawn (as was invariably the case). I'd stop off at every other motorway service station for clandestine 'sessions' before coming home broke, filled with self-loathing and hours late, with some pack of lies to my wife about having to work etc. That sheer hatred of myself, my own worthlessness and duplicity is something that I shall never ever forget… my wife having to make excuses at work because she couldn’t afford Ł2 to grab some lunch whilst driving to work in a rust bucket deathtrap of a car, no family holiday for best part of 10 years despite our both working… yet for years I carried on, seemingly unable to ever stop? I suppose I have the dreaded 'addictive personality'; an intensity or obsessiveness that lends itself to such unfortunate characteristics. For some people it's alcohol, for others it's drugs (or even something more benign such as an irrational obsession with computer games, music or whatever), but for me it was always those infernal, money-grabbing boxes with their flashing lights and natty sound samples. Fortunately for me, I did manage to stop completely and totally 7 years ago now, albeit I did have one solitary relapse about 5 years back. The factors that finally made me do so were the combination of an Ł800 beating at the hands of a Ł1000 JP casino machine (BFM Grandslam/Scorpion 4 tech if anyone's interested, an example of which I now own myself as part of my private collection) and the gradual realisation through the Fairplay Campaign, fruit machine emulation in general and creditable discussions amongst truly knowledgeable people like Chopsticks above, that fruit machines are most certainly not what they claim to be, much like SWPs for that matter. In the 7 years that I have been ‘fruity free’ I’ve gone from not having a pot to piss in to paper millionaire – must tell you something I guess. Fruit machines are evil bastard things; even the so-called ‘good times’ when I won were tempered in the knowledge that this was at the direct, incontrovertible expense of some poor sod just like me, who’d been left feeling just like I did after yet another beating probably minutes before.



Marc	Sep 24 2009, 04:01 PM Post #9
Waiting for the punchline Posts: 2,083 Group: Subscribers Member #769 Joined: January 26, 2006 Football bias: slowly loosing interest The best videogame ever is: Street Fighter II Hyper Fighting	That is one of those tales that, while I feel I should reply having asked the question, doesn't really leave much for me to say, other than 'good on you sir'. I've had trouble with the 'addicitve personality' thing myself and I know how hard it can be to regain control a habit gone wrong, even knowing full well that it's sending you to hell in a handcart.



Captain Caveman	Sep 24 2009, 04:46 PM Post #10
Advanced Member Posts: 2,094 Group: Banned Member #532 Joined: May 23, 2005	BikNorton Sep 24 2009, 01:12 PM If the machine's cheating/rigged then skill is irrelevant so it can't be SWP, surely? Or to say it another way, if it's advertised as skill-based and then cheats, it's false and/or misleading advertising. I totally agree, as I suspect most would. No doubt most SWP punters are blissfully unaware of these 'developments' and are still pumping their hard earned into them on the entirely false premise that they're true skill games at all times, just like I used to believe that fruit machines were completely invulnerable to 'cheat' playing methods and always made their percentage, in all circumstances. Unfortunately, I think you'll find that SWP players, like fruit machine players, are lumped together into a specific 'pond scum' category in terms of meaningful regulation and/or protection of their interests. If I understand the situation correctly, woe betide anyone that runs a bent lottery, scratch card scheme, horse race or roulette wheel, but so-called 'amusement' games? They're a different matter apparently, despite surely being the most common and hard core form of true gambling of them all...



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