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| Death Penalty; Spilt From Van Gogh Topic... | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Dec 21 2004, 04:03 AM (273 Views) | |
| tsrill | Dec 21 2004, 04:03 AM Post #1 |
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Well, most western countries have abolished death penalty quite some time ago, even those that do not legitimize drugs and prostitution (e.g. France). The countries that share the American values on this topic can be found here I'm proud to live in a coutnry that has abolished death penalty already in 1870. But I agree, that's another topic. |
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| HIMARS | Dec 21 2004, 11:09 AM Post #2 |
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Not all states in America allow the death penalty. Of those that do, only a handful execute people on a regular basis. I'm opposed to the death penalty for religious reasons, the same ones that make me anti-abortion. Why are some of you against the death penalty? |
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| tsunamy | Dec 21 2004, 02:19 PM Post #3 |
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Misses Big Picture.
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Personally - i think the whole idea behind the death penalty has good intentions. however - it must be noted that our system of justice is not infallible. however, to me, the more important reason that i'm against the death penalty is that it's cruel and unusal punishment. i'm mean, yes - providing we found the right person guilty, they did take someone elses life. However, by setting an execution date for the person, it gives them an exact time they are going to die - something no one should have to endure. I'm sure that people will disagree with me there, but everyone deserves a little mercy. |
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| Liarg | Dec 21 2004, 02:57 PM Post #4 |
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East of Gilead
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In that case, we could just pop them in the head with a .45 immediately upon reading the verdict. No waiting, no worrying, no stress...... Just kidding of course, but I don't think the anticipation of death is any worse a punishment than knowing that you will be imprisoned for the rest of your life. Personally, I would choose death over the knowledge that I would never again walk freely in the world. |
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| Lakarian | Dec 21 2004, 03:08 PM Post #5 |
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Traveller in the Multiverse
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I am against the Death Penalty because I think it is an antiquated practice, a holdover from earlier times. Our earliest ancestors for the most part did not have extensive prisons, if somebody committed a serious crime such as murder, death was probably the best option, the other option banishment meant they could come back to cause trouble. However we now live in a society where we can keep the worst criminals locked up, at the cost of our tax money true but I actually would'nt mind paying a few extra dollars to be safe from the worst hoodlums. The other thing about the death penalty that does'nt make much sense to me is how can you send an effective message killing is wrong if the state has the power of life and death over people? Some of the biggest supporters of the Death Penalty are the Religous Right types but don't the scriptures say "Venegance is mine saith the Lord, I will repay"? And don't forget "Thou shalt not Kill". I'm not certainly not totally against killing, in war,in law enforcement, in the case of a deranged prowler on your property or in your home, I believe it is within anyone's right to take whatever action necessary to protect themselves or other innocent lives. But execution, if not cold blooded murder , is only a step above. |
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| tsunamy | Dec 21 2004, 04:10 PM Post #6 |
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Misses Big Picture.
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now i apologize for not having proof to back me up here *if there is any* but i did hear somewhere that it is cheaper to keep a prisoner alive than to kill him/her because of all the epxenses that go with the exection - ie doctors, other ppl etc. not gaurenteeing that is correct but i did hear that somewhere. |
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| Liarg | Dec 21 2004, 04:28 PM Post #7 |
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East of Gilead
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Probably depends on how long the prisoner lives in custody- and what his/her medical condition is. A prisoner who is serving life who develops serious medical issues could really rack up some extensive bills. But I am sure it is also expensive to execute someone . Overall on average, it probably would cost more to keep someone on death row for 8-12 years then execute them than it would to keep them for 30 years if they were fairly healthy. |
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| DWC | Dec 21 2004, 09:30 PM Post #8 |
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Impartially Biased
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Tsu, you're right, and the reaction of some of those who support the death penalty in the US has been to try and reduce the cost of executions by limiting appeals, access to services, etc. |
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| htz3 | Dec 22 2004, 02:59 AM Post #9 |
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Former Delegate Member of COG
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The way it works is the costs of all the appeals makes it cheaper to keep someone alive than to execute them. I have very mixed feelings on the subject. Someone brutally murders a child tourture the whole 9 yards that would be a cause that I might agree the person should be put to death. If we caught Osma, we did catch Saddam, had they caught Hitler I'm sure you get the idea. Beyond that I don't know there is always a chance you might convict the wrong person. |
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| Bodhisattva Babes | Dec 22 2004, 03:24 AM Post #10 |
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^ 2nd from the left
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I'm against the death penalty. period. I've told everyone I know that even if I were ever murdered, tortured, whatever, I'd want them to fight against any legal reason that would demand a death penalty against the person. Taking a life is taking a life. |
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| tsrill | Dec 22 2004, 04:43 AM Post #11 |
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In most, maybe all, cases, the truth is and cannot be 100 % known. There is always doubt, so when you sentence someone to death, there is always the chance the wrong person has been picked and someone innocent is killed. My opinion is that killing people is not something to take chances with; I would rather have a murderer alive than someone innocent killed. This is the main reason why I am agaisnt death penalty. |
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| kloister | Dec 22 2004, 05:22 AM Post #12 |
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Fudgie's 'Fronk'...
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:2c I would agree with Lakarian on this one... *Putting on my 'lampshade of religious persuasion' for a moment...* I believe in the Bible where is states that 'thou shalt not kill'...As one of the Ten Commandments...I believe that this is a law from God and we have to live by that...But then we also have the law of the land...And this too has to be adhered to...So for those people that live within countries where the death penalty is still enacted it must be really tough... IMHO it is for us to judge those that wrong us as constituted within the laws of the land...But to take a life...I do not believe that is for us to do...God is the ultimate judge and it should be left at that... |
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| Groot Eindhoven | Dec 22 2004, 03:41 PM Post #13 |
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-[insert witty title]-
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Tsrill, isn't there still a death-penalty in military-law? (In the Netherlands) I believe it was for "Hoog-verraad" :wacko: |
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| htz3 | Dec 22 2004, 06:25 PM Post #14 |
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Former Delegate Member of COG
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That is basicly what I meant in my previous post. |
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| tsrill | Dec 23 2004, 04:47 AM Post #15 |
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Then we agree ![]() GE, could be possible, I don't know. Therefore I'm pacifist ![]() EDIT: I looked it up, death penalty has been abolished in military law as well, in 1983. Btw, "Hoogverraad" is treason in English. |
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| Xellos-sama | Dec 23 2004, 12:33 PM Post #16 |
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Trickster Priest
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Well, I'm personally against it. I just don't like killing people. Umm...isn't *treason* treason in English? |
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| TOOL a HOO | Dec 23 2004, 04:12 PM Post #17 |
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I don't think thats the point. The message is that there is serious punishment for that action. IMO, I dont mind the theory of eye for an eye. However, this walks the edge of a knife and given the value of life I dont think the death panalty is a term that should be taken lightly. Its worth being on the safe side and just sticking to lock-up. |
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| tsrill | Dec 24 2004, 06:34 AM Post #18 |
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Unregistered
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You know what I mean (I hope...)
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| Kein Aber | Dec 25 2004, 11:20 PM Post #19 |
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I will state right up front that I do oppose the Death penalty. Just because someone violated the most basic right of all beings by extinguishing life, is not a justifiable reason to extinguish that persons most basic right. Neither should that person be celebrated for his act. He should be removed from society and be allowed to reflect upon his actions and the consequences, knowing that he will never again participate in a free society. Incarceration for the remainder of his life is sufficient punishment and in the view of some even cruel and unusual. I for one do not believe that true cold blooded murderer can ever be truly rehabilitated. Even if there is a chance, their “reborn state” should be utilized as an example to their fellow prisioners. They should never be released. This brings up the question are they really guilty, a living persons guilt or innocence can be recognized and appropriately handled. If the person is dead the point of guilt or innocence is mute and becomes a topic of debate. Please understand that the vast majority of murders convicted are indeed guilty. The true deterrent to crime is swift and fair action, followed by appropriate and certain punishment for crime. The punishment must fit the crime. This unfortunately has not been the rule, for a while in the United States. The peoples who should go to jail Michael Jackson, The Enron Big Wigs, Scott Peterson get treated like royalty, while the everyday folks get thrown right in, the poor guy caught with Pot, someone who take food to feed the family. Even Martha Steward (I know she was famous but what did she really do?) The punishment must fit the crime. Until it does justice will keep peeking at the newspapers. Kein Aber |
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| tsunamy | Dec 26 2004, 12:31 AM Post #20 |
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Misses Big Picture.
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to be really honest - im not sold on the fact that Micheal Jackson is guilty. i think hes stupid and ppl are trying to take advantage of him. however - i do agree the punishment for fit the crime. martha stewart got crucified because she was famous and they got her on the small crime of prejury but no one really knows or cares - she was just the face of the people who stole money... |
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| Kein Aber | Dec 26 2004, 09:04 AM Post #21 |
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Both Michael and Martha have established their fame through their public images. Agreed, they are both talented in their particular trade. I tell you one thing that is certain, I would hire Martha anytime, guilty or not, to cook for a dinner party, or decorate my house for any ocassion. That's her skill. Michael would never enter my house anytime, guity or not, to entertain my kids or baby sit. Although, that's his skill. It all rests in intent, actual or preceived. |
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| TOOL a HOO | Dec 28 2004, 08:14 PM Post #22 |
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Micheal and Martha.... KILL THE LIKES OF 'EM! ...and wilst the chopping block is warm, lets add PeeWee Herman. |
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| alien spy | Dec 29 2004, 02:35 AM Post #23 |
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there's worse things than death, so there are other ways to make the crime fit the punishment. micheal j should start writing jingles for tv and martha can be put to work on nutricious tv dinners or something - at no reimbursement and extra time if they don't perform. of course, that puts skilled people at kidnapping risk from the state. nah - TaH has a point...
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| parrrrtay | Dec 29 2004, 09:33 AM Post #24 |
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Do not follow me, for I am lost...
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I oppose the Death penalty. The room for ERROR is just too high. I must admit with DNA testing things are better than they were years ago. No system is fool-proof, Judicial system included. |
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| tsrill | Dec 29 2004, 10:10 AM Post #25 |
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Or, as someone once put it (I forgot who) Show me a system that's fool proof and I'll find you a better fool. |
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(I hope...)
nah - TaH has a point...

3:50 AM Jul 11