Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]
Welcome to NationStates Texas Forum. We hope you enjoy your visit.


You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our community, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free.


Join our community!


If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features:

Username:   Password:
Add Reply
Who would you vote for?
Topic Started: Oct 8 2004, 09:43 AM (1,281 Views)
Greenspoint
Member Avatar
Big Tex called me a "Goofball" :)
Texan
Yeah, I'm aware that Canada isn't alone in any animosity towards the U.S. Though I don't think it's the gov't that I hear it from as much as certain individual citizens. And it puzzles me. I can understand why the French don't like us, cause they're French. I couldn't care less about how the French feel, or most of the rest of Europe for that matter. The negativity I've seen from our northern border, though, is a bit harder for me to understand since they're like one of our closest neighbors and a nation I'd been taught to view as one of our closest allies, along the line of the UK.

Like many other right-wing conservatives I know, I'm to the point where I don't give a flip what any other nation thinks or feels about us.

That's my RL political diatribe for the week. I'll now un-hijack the thread back to its original topic...
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
El Pat
Member Avatar
Texas Commander
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Canada brings many benificial items to the United States:
ice hockey (NHL currently on strike)
cheap drugs (for people in a couple of states)
oil (which they are unwilling to drill, although i agree with them on that point)
cod (just in case Massachusetts runs out)
and damn cold weather.

France: land of 1000 cheeses and 1 bar of soap. Okay, okay, I jest.

Palcon, obviously there are countries around the world who don't like us. There are also countries around the world that dislike France, Britain, Italy, Rwanda, India, and The Phillipines as well. Just loosen up and don't get all jumpy about stuff. Chill out and start laughing at the world, it makes things a lot more enjoyable!

Pat
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Rixtex
No Avatar
Texas General
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
El Pat,Oct 22 2004
07:46 PM
oil (which they are unwilling to drill, although i agree with them on that point)

Oh, they :canada drill for it, and natural gas :flame , which they send south to us.

Gee, I kinda like the oil. I know my car wouldn't run without it. :blackStang
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
El Pat
Member Avatar
Texas Commander
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
True, they do drill some oil and send it south. There are large fields in northern Alberta and Manitoba that they refuse to touch due to the potential hazard to the environment. That's why I support their not drilling for more oil in the area. Sorry bout that, should have made that clearer :cowboy

Pat
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
TimDauwalter
Member Avatar
Texas Commander
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Quote:
 
cheap drugs (for people in a couple of states)


You wouldn't believe how big of an issue it is here. The media only magnifies it by playing the issue up. Well, as long as seniors continue to vote in record numbers it will never end.

Probably like Yucca mountain in Nevada or ANWR in Alaska.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
bangon
Member Avatar
One Badass Rocker
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Quote:
 
Also Canada is not the only country that's got problems with the US. An example of another is France


:ranting
You mean that country that would be called NAZI FRANCE if it wasn't for the sacrifice of Americans? Everybody who gives a s**t how France feels, raise your hands.

Canada? The one's up north that call us everytime they have a new "widget" to sell and expect us to be their major buyer, but then make our trucks sit for days at the border before we can take our exports into their country? You mean that Canada? The Canada that has half their citizens living here?

Geeez, next it will be Mexico because we aren't letting illegals in fast enough! AND that little argument that illegals take jobs no one else would take is BS. I work in the paint industry and 90 percent of the mexican painters I meet everyday are illegal and making 10 bucks an hour. I have alot of AMERICAN painter friends looking for work, but because Paco, the legal alien, owns a paint business, he only hires his relatives from Mexico. Let a white paint company refuse to hire mexicans and LULAC will be all over their asses! Don't get me started on that one.

ANYWAY, all those countries that have a problem with the US have , at one time or another, had their ass pulled out of the fire by the hated USA. They will take our help and financial support when it's convienient but then they hate us again.

I think America should withdraw from the world and then let everyone cry and whine about the sorry Americans that refuse to help. Hell, they're going to hate us either way, at least our money would stay here where it belongs. Of course, the liberals wouldn't allow that, now would they?

Sorry Pat, no offense intended. I have nothing against liberals, just liberal NUTS! They are as bad as Conservative NUTS! :smile

I'm through :ranting now.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
El Pat
Member Avatar
Texas Commander
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
:) None taken Bangon, I actually quite enjoyed your comments!

Pat
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
bangon
Member Avatar
One Badass Rocker
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
:ranting :ranting :ranting :ranting :ranting

I love this little guy! He has got to be the BEST smiley (well, he's not really smiling, is he?)

:ranting :ranting :ranting :ranting :ranting
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Ukroatia
Member Avatar
Former SecDef
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
France is two steps from a dictatorship, and the only reason they don't like us is because us getting rid of Saddam hurt their economy. I think Jacques Sharaq is a moron. Since Napolean, (I like to call him Neopolitan), French leaders have only hurt their own country. Europe itself has a problem with moving in on world threats. During WWII they waited until Germany was bombing England before they acted.

Europe at that time has the same mindset as the UN now. You can't always wait anymore. There are such devestating weapons nowdays that can kill hundreds of thousands in an instant. You can not wait. The only reason we arent breathing down Iran's throat, and nuking the island of North Korea is because of world views towards us. Don't think for a second that if we had world support that a draft in the US would happen and that we would kick everyone's ass.

Its also sad that we have people protesting the war in Iraq because of lives lost. How many have died, uhm less than 2000, yeah how many died during the Normandy invasion............Its ridiculous and selfish. During the whole last 100 years we have not fought in war directly related to US security. Japan wasnt a threat. But the people supported. Whats changed now. Bill Maher and the rest of the liberal media(sorry Pat) likes to influence American feelings.

But I digress. :kitty5
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Skanky Lima Beans
No Avatar
Texas Elite
[ *  *  *  *  *  * ]
I have a feeling that I'm going to get blasted here, but...

Actually, I do give a sh*t how other countries feel. As much as I prefer that we trend towards isolationism (now, isn't that a rather odd view for a tried and true liberal to have?), I know that it's not going to happen. We're living in a global economy, and international relations are going to be the focal point of the future of the United States. Our economy is suffering quite a bit right now, and the dollar against other currencies is plummeting. We need to make international cooperation a priority, or get the hell out of everyone else's business. Lets face it, we wouldn't be hated if we haven't had a history of sticking our nose where it doesn't belong.

Less than 2000 American lives have been lost in the war on Iraq. But about 13,000 civilians (according to the BBC) have been killed, and the total might be as high as 100,000 Iraqi civilians (taken from a study performed by Bloomberg School of Public Health at Johns Hopkins University in Baltimore). This is still less than Normandy, but keep in mind that this is a drastically different world we live in, and war is fought very differently than it was back then. The vast numbers of ground troops needed then have been largely replaced with guided missiles and other forms of intelligent weaponry.

Personally, if we wanted to fight a war on international terrorism I think we've done a sh*t-bang job of it. There are currently WMD in N. Korea, Pakistan, India, Iran (which also has a national Death to America Day...Feb 6, mark your calendar), Israel, Libya, Syria, and Algeria. There are intense human rights violations occurring in Colombia, Cuba, Turkey, Nepal, and throughout the vast majority of Africa. Our job in Afghanistan isn't finished yet. Yet of all places we decided to focus on Iraq. I'm not arguing that the safety of America isn't at risk, because Sept 11 obviously showed us otherwise. But the fact is that Iraq had nothing to do with Sept 11, they had no WMD, and more civilans died from UN-imposed sanctions on Iraq than from Saddam Hussein's ruling. Iraq has never been a sanctuary of democracy, but compared to many other countries in the world Iraq would appear to be towards the bottom of the heap of our worries.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Ukroatia
Member Avatar
Former SecDef
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Keep in mind that out of those supposedly 100k civilians being killed how many Iraqs killed Iraqs. Also out those countries with WMDs, at the time only Iraq supposedly had them, and only three of those nations arent allowed to have them. Iraq, Iran, and N Korea. Iran does not have a national kill america day and whoever told you that is full of it.

I am not saying anything good about america, but they hate the west in general, which includes Europe and the whole western hemisphere. Our economy hit a depression as Bill Clinton was leaving office and has been on the up and up since August 2001.

Now, if the economy was going down as Bill Clinton was leaving, whos fault is it(well, if you can really really blame a President). Uhm...CLINTON. Clinton said in an interview that he wishes he couldve gotten away with as tough of a stance on terrorism as George W, and thats something he regrets.

If we had to go middle eastern country to middle eastern country to rid the region of terrorists I would support it, hell I just might re enlist to do it, and to see the rest of the middle eastern countries that i missed the first time over (private job market still sucks for former infantry marines).

I am not slamming you, and in fact I hate/dislike about 2/3rds of the current administration George W not included.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Skanky Lima Beans
No Avatar
Texas Elite
[ *  *  *  *  *  * ]
I quote from an article in the New York Times (since we're using the 100k figure)
Quote:
 
they found that Iraqis were 2.5 times more likely to die in the 17 months following the invasion than in the 14 months before it.

Iraq is undoubtedly more unstable than before we invaded it. Currently, most of the deaths of Iraqi civilians are a result of our activities in the nation. Down the road these statistics will hopefully improve, but right now Iraq is more dangerous to the average civilian than when Saddam was in charge.

Both Iran and N. Korea have long been suspected to have WMD, and activity suggesting ongoing research in the area has been around for quite some time. Not to mention that the basic documents used to support invading Iraq because of WMD were fabricated, not by the US, mind you, but the fault still lies with us for not doing the proper research. Using false information is no basis for going to war.

Feb 6th is indeed "Death to America Day" on the official Islamic Republic of Iran calendar, as reported in the Washington Post. There was a big to-do involving a celebration scheduled at a Marriott hotel in Md. It's also a favorite slogan of the Islamic Republic of Iran, although they maintain it is pointed towards the American gov't only.

Of course, whether or not a country is in possession of WMD legally or illegally is sort of a mute point. It all depends on our relationship with them at the time, and the current government. Of course, we are on great terms with Israel, and decent terms with India, but the governments of Pakistan, Libya, Syria, and Algeria aren't the most stable of gov'ts, and we haven't been on the greatest of terms with most middle-eastern nations for quite a while now. A dangerous combination.

Economy is not my forte, I will be the first to admit that. Yet, it's clear that our national deficit has ballooned since Bush took office. And our dollar against other currencies has indeed been falling dramatically in the past few months. The economy may appear to be doing alright, but only because we've been borrowing up to the teeth. This trend can't continue forever. Other countries are eventually going to start saying no when we ask them for money.

Again, I don't disagree with Bush's tough stance on terrorism. I do, however, have a problem with targeting Iraq when other countries are a bigger threat, and using Sept 11 as a public emotional appeal to do so. Let's take care of the real problem.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
bangon
Member Avatar
One Badass Rocker
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Quote:
 
Lets face it, we wouldn't be hated if we haven't had a history of sticking our nose where it doesn't belong.


Yes we would. It's not that we stick our noses in where it don't belong, it's that we have so much and they do not. We are powerful and they are not. We MAKE our money. We don't steal it, borrow it, or have to have it given to us by other countries because we are too stupid to move to where we can grow food!!! It's a case of jealousy, plain and simple!

While we are talking about this, do you realize that 99 percent of the time America has "Stuck it's nose in", it was to help someone else at their request. The remaining times it was in America's best interest to stick their nose in. If they hadn't have done so, we would be screaming at the top of our lungs.
Why do you think no more planes have been flown into anymore buildings here? The liberals? Nope, the conservatives who said "Let's show them what they get when they attack us on OUR soil." The conservatives who said "Cry all you want about racial profiling cause we are checking people who come into our country". If liberals had been in charge, America would look like Israel right now, with car bombs going off every day. Of course the liberals would give them lengthy trials in club fed surroundings and the terror would continue. America has the Troops, Conservatives and Bush to thank for their added security at night.

This is all I'm saying about this because I have learned in my 41 years that people believe what ever made up story that they want to, especially far left liberals who read the NY Times, a liberal paper.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Independate States
No Avatar
Texas Colonel
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Gotta love the ad Google displays for this page....
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Rixtex
No Avatar
Texas General
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Oh man. There is so much bad info here, I don't even know where to begin.

The 100K in civilian deaths has been discredited when the sampling methods were called into question. Seems they couldn't complete the survey in multiple locations so they picked the worst location and extrapolated over the whole country. Doesn't work.

More killed in past 17 months than the 14 months before the war started? That sounds suspicious. Why not the 17 months before? What happened in the other 3 months? Why stop there? How many died in the 12 years between Gulf Wars? It's estimated that Saddam slaughtered 200,000 marsh Shia. Not to mention the deaths during the sanctions (which need to be laid at Saddam's feet, not ours. He had the resources to feed his people, but chose to build palaces and buy weapons instead.) Take it further back another 10 years. Saddam started a war against Iran that cost over 1 million lives. The list of Saddam's atrocities goes on.

So, where should we stick our noses? Given Saddam's body count, it seems like benevolence to depose him.

But Japan wasn't a threat? Uh, excuse me. Japan bombed Pearl Harbor, if you'll recall. It's not like we struck the first blow. The Japanese found out just how pissed off and united Americans can become when someone stirs up the nest. Much like al Quaeda and the Taliban did.

Then again, it's way too simplistic to say the world hates us because of jealousy. Its a far sight more complex than that. Different people have different reasons to hate us, in differing degrees.

Europeans aren't jealous. They think they have a superior system, which they were able to pay for because we subsidized their defense for 50 years, then still needed our help to quell the Balkan Wars.

Arabs and Muslims aren't jealous. Many are convinced they have a superior God. Unfortunately, the most extreme among them aren't willing to be secure in their own faith, but insist everyone believe the same as they do and are willing to kill if you don't see it their way.

Chinese aren't jealous exactly. They believe they own the future. I fear if their system doesn't change soon, they will become increasingly hostile. Watch out after the 2008 Olympics.

And all this is fed by a world press that is mainly government or politically controlled. Every problem is the fault of America. Sorry, the world makes its own problems.

To be fair, the U.S. has stuck it's nose in many places it wasn't wanted. The western hemisphere has numerous examples. We weren't asked many times. Some of the times we were asked, it was by corrupt little dictators who just wanted us to pull their nuts out of the fire. We just went, asked or not. Sometimes it worked out OK for the natives, sometimes it didn't.

Well, that's my word allotment for the month.

Thanks for playing.

Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Ukroatia
Member Avatar
Former SecDef
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Rixtex,Mar 7 2005
10:39 PM
But Japan wasn't a threat? Uh, excuse me. Japan bombed Pearl Harbor, if you'll recall. It's not like we struck the first blow. The Japanese found out just how pissed off and united Americans can become when someone stirs up the nest.

The Japanese werent a threat, and we provoked them into war. We cut off supplies needed for them to survive because they allied themselves with Germany. Japan was only threatening to Manchuria and China and Vietnam.

Also, they attacked Pearl Harbor then scooted their way back home because the only advantage they had was suprise. Their military was hardly in que with ours. Some studies coming out now (according to the history channel), show that we may have allowed them to attack us at Pearl, in order to get us in WWII. But I digress. And regardless of what anyone thinks, the government does not control "AMERICA'S" economy. The people do. The media likes to claim we are borrowing money from other countries, but according to the American Legion war historians, Britain still owes the US 78 million dollars, France still owes us 185 million dollars, and Germany still owes the former alliance we were in during WWI and WWII 568 million dollars. This is, of course, with interest. Our countries deficit was never fixed. When it was reported that the Clinton admin had balanced the budget and that we had a surplus, that was going to be by the year 2010 I believe. Every president drives the deficit down to a record high, and then every two term president balances the budget, and then the next one screws it up again.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Rixtex
No Avatar
Texas General
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Ukroatia,Mar 7 2005
11:35 PM
Rixtex,Mar 7 2005
10:39 PM
But Japan wasn't a threat? Uh, excuse me. Japan bombed Pearl Harbor, if you'll recall. It's not like we struck the first blow. The Japanese found out just how pissed off and united Americans can become when someone stirs up the nest.

The Japanese werent a threat, and we provoked them into war. We cut off supplies needed for them to survive because they allied themselves with Germany. Japan was only threatening to Manchuria and China and Vietnam.

Also, they attacked Pearl Harbor then scooted their way back home because the only advantage they had was suprise. Their military was hardly in que with ours. Some studies coming out now (according to the history channel), show that we may have allowed them to attack us at Pearl, in order to get us in WWII.

As far as I'm concerned, saying we provoked Japan into attacking us is as bad as saying we provoked Osama bin Laden on 9/11. Way to go, blame the victim.

We embargoed oil and metals from Japan to express outrage at their invasion of China. Should we have done nothing? Guess not.

Japan wanted to dominate the Pacific and could not do so as long as our Pacific fleet was in the way. If it didn't happen at Pearl Harbor, it was only a matter of time.

As far as the conspiracy theories of knowledge of the attack beforehand, I doubt anything malicious was involved. Typical bureaucratic blinders, sort of like pre-9/11, when all the signs were there but no one was smart enough to read them.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Skanky Lima Beans
No Avatar
Texas Elite
[ *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Quote:
 

How many died in the 12 years between Gulf Wars? It's estimated that Saddam slaughtered 200,000 marsh Shia. Not to mention the deaths during the sanctions (which need to be laid at Saddam's feet, not ours. He had the resources to feed his people, but chose to build palaces and buy weapons instead.) Take it further back another 10 years. Saddam started a war against Iran that cost over 1 million lives. The list of Saddam's atrocities goes on.



Keep in mind that the US supported Saddam as the ruler of Iraq, and also supplied his military with weapons and intelligence. We wanted Saddam to start a war with Iran. Under the idea that the enemy of my enemy is my friend, and Iran was certainly our enemy (this was shortly after Iran held American diplomats hostage for 444 days from 1979-81), the US supplied Iraq with information of Iranian deployment, and access to military weaponry and supplies. Meanwhile, it was no secret that Saddam supported erradicating the Kurds and Shiites. We were more concerned with Iran, so we let Saddam's other policies slide by.

Then again, if we're going to look at this from a humanitarian viewpoint, in 1998 alone 200,000 people died as the result of wars and dictator regimes in Africa, in addition to the 2 million who died from AIDS. This is one year alone. Where's the outcry here? Where's the billions in aid? Humanitarian aid is really not the issue. If we're so concerned with human rights violations in Iraq, why didn't we put a stop to them long ago? Saddam's most horrible examples of human rights violations occured in the late 80s and early-mid 90s.

It's also a question of why exactly we decided to invade Iraq at the time we did. We were still heavily in the middle of the war in Afghanistan, and we in fact still haven't finished up there. Iraq posed no immediate threat to the US, so why start another fight when our resources would be stretched thin, and it would hamper our progress in Afghanistan? Why jump into a situation badly prepared and misinformed? It was irresponsible, in my opinion.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Ukroatia
Member Avatar
Former SecDef
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
You're mistaken about Afganistan. I was sitting around for a month not doing anything before going to Iraq. And screw the amount of people who died in Africa as a result of AIDs, thats their fault or their parents. You know how many people die in America from Car accidents or falling down the stairs. Death does not measure success.

Sure it sucks that a bunch of people die in Africa every year, so what!!! That may sound harsh but its their problem let them deal with it. If we went to Iraq for oil so be it. It sure isnt helping us out at all.

Maybe the reason we are so tuned in to Iraq while overlooking other countries is because they betrayed us. Yes we supported Saddam, and what did he do, he shit on our lawn that's what he did. Same as France, I think France should be our next target, then Spain and Italy.

One thing about PM Blair, at least he has the balls to help his friends out. Unlike Canada.

Oh and with the Japanese thing, their attack on Pearl still, was nothing like 9/11, and they did not dishonor themselves by doing that. It was a good plan, and they were formidable foes. But when you look at troop allocation, where were a majority of our troops, in the Pacific campaign, or in North Africa and Europe??? Makes you wonder huh. We didn't have to fight Germany at all. But again I digress.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Skanky Lima Beans
No Avatar
Texas Elite
[ *  *  *  *  *  * ]
I've heard much differently about Afghanistan. Quite a few of my relatives are in the military, and one in particular, a paratrooper in the army, sure had his hands full before he moved over to Iraq. It could be that he was in a different area than you were. Either way, it's still quite apparent that we're not finished. Have we found Osama bin Laden? Have we erradicated al Qaida? Not just subdued, but erradicated to the point where they are no longer a threat? Has the Taliban regime completely toppled and been replaced with a sustainable democratic government? No. The new government has progressed by leaps and bounds, much quicker than Iraq is, but even Rumsfeld agrees there is much more to do.

Rixtex brought up the humanitarian aspect of Iraq, and I was replying to that. I think our views differ on this point; I care deeply about humanitarian problems.

I'm also confused about your statement "Death does not equal success." I agree completely, to go so far to say that death equals failure, so I wonder how it pertains to my post above.

We also knew about Saddam all along. He's shown the same tendencies and views throughout his entire political career, starting at the beginning when he attempted to assassinate high political figures in the former government. The difference is that back then we didn't care, because we thought of Iran as a bigger threat then Iraq (which was the case at the time). It just backfired on us 10 years later when it became apparent that he wasn't really on our side at all. If anything we're trying to rectify a mistake made long ago. In that case, I still question the timing.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous)
ZetaBoards - Free Forum Hosting
Enjoy forums? Start your own community for free.
Learn More · Register for Free
Go to Next Page
« Previous Topic · Texas News Center · Next Topic »
Add Reply