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| Student loans: The latest credit crisis | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Apr 29 2008, 11:53 AM (828 Views) | |
| captain_proton_au | Apr 29 2008, 05:57 PM Post #16 |
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A Robot in Disguise
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Its the same kind as argument as the public vs private health thing. A little government inefficiency vs preventative maintenance to cover all. Under a system that has interest free student loans, there's money being wasted not accumulating interest rates, but you are more likely to catch those from low income backgrounds that really want to be a teacher and would have ended up in a career at Mickey D's had they not had that interest free option. Trying to apply simple free market rules to some areas of social structuring is not the best way to do things. Its a poor choice, especially when in a skills shortage/crisis like most of the west is |
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| Dandandat | Apr 29 2008, 06:07 PM Post #17 |
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Time to put something here
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I want to help people to, I dont want to be told I "have" to help people. |
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| Dandandat | Apr 29 2008, 06:10 PM Post #18 |
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Time to put something here
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So then you would propose to force people into certain curricula before having out the checks. Now that’s something I would be keen on. |
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| Hoss | Apr 29 2008, 06:30 PM Post #19 |
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Don't make me use my bare hands on you.
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there are so many examples here of people who are from very humble beginnings becoming successful that all the social good intentions government programs crap doesn't go far with me. When you are forced to help someone, you aren't really helping them, but rather just being their slave. |
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| ds9074 | Apr 30 2008, 12:39 AM Post #20 |
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Admiral
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Rubbish. Its not slavery, its helping people improve their education and providing everyone with the guarantee of financial support to go as far as they can. As the support is provided by the state there is democratic accountability, people can vote for the support to stop if they so wish. |
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| RTW | Apr 30 2008, 02:52 AM Post #21 |
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Vice Admiral
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That used to be true but now so many people are getting "help" and they vote to continue the status quo. Who would vote themselves a paycut? There are over 1,700 different subsidy programs with which American politicians can now buy votes. Once again I ask, should one's vote be weighted to amount of taxes he/she pays? |
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| ds9074 | Apr 30 2008, 04:35 AM Post #22 |
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Admiral
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No everyone should have an equal right to vote as taxation and spending is just one aspect of the role of an elected government. For example everyone has to live equally under the law. It would be wrong to give some people more influence and others less in elections to a legislature that decides those laws. But we have been down the road of this argument before. |
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| Hoss | Apr 30 2008, 07:52 AM Post #23 |
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Don't make me use my bare hands on you.
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Rubbish back at you. If I am forced by law and/or threat of violence to pay for someone else; that is forced labor also known as slavery. You can sugar coat it all you want with nice sounding ideals. If you want to get higher education and you are able to achieve, there is usually a way without shaking down other people for money. As I mentioned, you could try working, or performing well enough to get scholarships. And why should I be forced to pay people to get training and education in fields that society doesn't want or need? How many zoologists specializing in beetle husbandry to we pay for before we stop all that? |
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| ds9074 | Apr 30 2008, 08:47 AM Post #24 |
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Admiral
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You could always move to a different country with a different tax and spending regime or as I said vote for changes to tax policy. Collectively a representative democracy has the ability to reduce the taxes it pays. I also wonder where you draw the line with refering to taxation as slavery? Is any form of taxation for any purpose slavery? Or just if its spent on things you dont personally agree with? Does it have to be spending for the common benefit? |
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| Admiralbill_gomec | Apr 30 2008, 09:23 AM Post #25 |
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UberAdmiral
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A "little" government efficiency is an understatement. Yes, simple free market policy works. This country has a few "for profit" universities that offer quality educations to those who wouldn't get them. Yes, this is through student loans, but schools (I'm thinking of University of Phoenix in particular) offering curricula where students can actually be employable helps to alleviate student loan problems. But, for now, let's stick with the government. What if a government offered a company tax breaks to set up training/apprenticeship/education programs for low income people. That would be far more efficient than having a government control a program, wouldn't it? Jumping back to the student loan credit problem. Many of the people who took out loans to further their education completed degrees that did not guarantee a job. Getting a Masters in Ancient Celtic Literature using student loans is not optimal unless there were openings someone with these credentials. If it were up to me, I'd nix getting certain degrees using student loans, unless a market existed for that major. Or, you could major in that area if you were willing to foot the bill. I've read certain cases on MSN (about six months ago, MSN did a series of articles on how hard it was to pay back student loans) that were supposed to tug at my heartstrings, but all it made me think was, "What were you thinking?" Why were you, for example, getting a Masters in British Literature and had no teaching credentials, nor any plan to teach? This person was working as a receptionist. Arrrgh! |
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| Admiralbill_gomec | Apr 30 2008, 09:26 AM Post #26 |
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UberAdmiral
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Overtaxation is slavery. Paying taxes and giving all the benefits to someone else is slavery. For example, you pay your taxes and they go to providing services for ILLEGAL aliens, instead of free rides to the border. There's a large gulf between what you as a Brit believes is the "right thing to do" with taxes and several of us as Americans. You're a lot more group-driven while we tend to be more individualistic. |
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| Minuet | Apr 30 2008, 10:10 AM Post #27 |
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Fleet Admiral Assistant wRench, Chief Supper Officer
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http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/slavery Why do some people insist of misusing terms? Using the word slavery in this manner waters down the real meaning of the word. You are watering down the meaning the same way that "fascism" has been watered down. We should try to discuss the issue instead of engaging in hyperbole. |
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| Dandandat | Apr 30 2008, 10:14 AM Post #28 |
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Time to put something here
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Minuet, what word would you then use to describe their sentiments? They believe they are working for the prosperity of others against their will. What would you call it then? |
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| Admiralbill_gomec | Apr 30 2008, 10:15 AM Post #29 |
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UberAdmiral
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I wasn't the one who brought it up, Min, by the way... |
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| Minuet | Apr 30 2008, 10:19 AM Post #30 |
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Fleet Admiral Assistant wRench, Chief Supper Officer
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The price you pay to be in a civilized society. I wonder what society would be like if all social programs never existed. The USA would certainly be different - there is no use in pretending that social programs don't exist there. They do and they have had a huge impact in creating the society you have today. |
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