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Where are the leaders?
Topic Started: Apr 15 2008, 12:16 PM (438 Views)
ds9074
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Admiral
What I want to know is where have the great leaders disappeared to?

In the UK we have the choice of an inept and dithering sub-Prime Minister, an young, inexperienced and slightly slippery leader of the Conservative party and an even younger leader of our third party the Lib Dems.

None of the leaders inspire. Few within their teams of Ministers or potential Ministers seem to shine or look particularly competent.

All the parties seem to be crowded onto a narrow and increasingly boggy area of the centre ground, trying to appeal to a handful of swing voters. Real radical action and change is talked about but not delivered.

Even in the contest for London Mayor, the largest directly elected Office in the UK, we have a stale and unpopular Labour mayor, a bumbling toff Conservative as his rival and a gay liberal policeman who wont be elected.

This seems to be infecting non-politically partisan positions as well. We have a speaker who unlike his predecessors doesnt command the respect of the whole of Parliament and has been running up vast bills at public expense.

We also have, in Prince Charles, an heir to the throne who, while plausibly a decent man does not have the same level of respect in the country and the world or the same sense of dignity about him as Queen Elizabeth.

Looking across at our American cousins it doesnt look much better. No offence but all 3 of the people who stand any chance of being the next President dont look particularly great for different reasons. Obama looks flimsy, Hillary looks like a calculating machine, McCain looks old and uninspiring. And they are going to take over from a man who, rightly or wrongly, most of the rest of the world sees at best as a joke and at worst as evil.

So where have the great leaders gone?
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Minuet
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Fleet Admiral Assistant wRench, Chief Supper Officer
Quote:
 
So where have the great leaders gone?


They aren't hiding out in Canada, I can tell you that. :no:
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Hoss
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Don't make me use my bare hands on you.
how often do great leaders come along? do events make a great leader, or expose a great leader where as we may have a great leader that we never heard about because he lived in boring times?

From my country, I consider Ronald Reagan the last leader who could be called 'great', as I believe he will stand out in the history books for centuries to come like Washington, Jefferson, or Lincoln. Some would say FDR (I would not). In between there was a long string of poor, mediocre, fair, or OK leaders. All in my opinion, of course. (Sorry, Jag, aside from an inspiring speech or two I don't consider Kennedy a great leader).

Perhaps exceptional leaders just don't come around that often. Perhaps is takes a great leader and then extrordinary events to expose the leader's greatness. Ronald Reagan and the climax of the Cold War, Abraham Lincoln and the Civil War, etc. Who's to say that Chester Arthur wouldn't have been a great leader under similar circumstances?
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Hoss
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Don't make me use my bare hands on you.
Not being a Giulianni backer myself, but of all the presidential candidates that we have had I think that he would have had the most potential for greatness in case of some extrordinary event. I would have the lowest expectations for Hillary as politiking doesn't make for greatness and that seems to be the expertise that she brings to the table.
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Dandandat
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Time to put something here
We have the same leaders now as we have always had. Our expectations and our means to measure have simply out paced realty.
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RTW
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Vice Admiral
How about this guy?
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STC
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Commodore
RTW
Apr 15 2008, 08:12 PM
How about this guy?

Dunno. It doesn't say what the re-offending rate from his prisons is, compared to an appropriate benchmark. So its hard to say if he's successful or not.
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Minuet
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^^^ Yes - as I read that I also thought it would be nice to have cold hard statistics along with the obvious political posturing. I am assuming that is a political website designed to get the man re-elected.
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Hoss
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Don't make me use my bare hands on you.
Minuet
Apr 15 2008, 02:56 PM
^^^ Yes - as I read that I also thought it would be nice to have cold hard statistics along with the obvious political posturing. I am assuming that is a political website designed to get the man re-elected.

cold hard statistics... if you believe in that sort of thing.
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Data's Cat's Sister
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Commodore
I don't believe in 'great leaders'. I don't think such a thing has every existed.

In the past we perhaps believed that we had great leaders, because we didn't have a 24hour media which pried into their every folly and flaw. Same with celebrities.

I think our perception in the past was wrong and our current image correct.
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Dandandat
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Time to put something here
Data's Cat's Sister
Apr 15 2008, 05:01 PM
I don't believe in 'great leaders'. I don't think such a thing has every existed.

In the past we perhaps believed that we had great leaders, because we didn't have a 24hour media which pried into their every folly and flaw. Same with celebrities.

I think our perception in the past was wrong and our current image correct.

Or our current evaluation to demanding?
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ds9074
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Admiral
I disagree. We have had great leaders who whether you agree with their policies have radically changed the country in the past. Think of Thatcher or Attlee.
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8247
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Apparently we look like this now
Hopefully, McCain will surprise us all. I'm not holding my breath though.
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Franko
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Shower Moderator
Minuet
Apr 15 2008, 09:36 AM
Quote:
 
So where have the great leaders gone?


They aren't hiding out in Canada, I can tell you that. :no:



Actually, I like Harper and as I've mentioned before, Jack Layton has shown good character during this tenure of a "minority government".


As for Stephane Dion, they should just put his picture in the encyclopedia under the subject of "pathetic". Even his own party are trying to get rid of him; Iggy is waiting in the wings.


In the broader picture, we live in very cynical times. And there is some truth to the fact that great leaders do great things, or preside over pivotal moments in history. That would be Reagan and Thatcher, of course, whose stature and accomplishments are indisputable unless you're a revisionist leftist professor at Berkley.


As for the present, I'd say we are at rock bottom. I have my own reasons for not really liking McCain; and giving serious consideration for Hillary as president is like some bizarre alternate reality concept where there must be something in our drinking water.

This leaves Obama, who seems the most enthusiastic of the three, and I always like enthusiasm. Hillary and McCain just want to be "crowned".

Don't like Guiliani, have my reasons. Couldn't stand Huckabee, either. Liked Romney, oh but he's a Mormon......John Edwards ? I wouldn't let that lying weasel into my home.

My fantasy ticket would be Colin Powell/Condi Rice for '08.


"No country for old men and dragon ladies"


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somerled
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Admiral MacDonald RN
RTW
Apr 16 2008, 05:12 AM
How about this guy?

Nope , he doesn't pass muster as far greatness in leadership is concerned.
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