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Scuffles mar Olympic torch relay
Topic Started: Apr 6 2008, 05:53 AM (288 Views)
ds9074
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Admiral
Quote:
 
Video of Torch Being Grabbed

Champion rower Sir Steve Redgrave has started the Olympic torch relay, taking it out of Wembley stadium for the London leg of its journey to Beijing.

As the torch left the stadium there were scuffles between police and pro-Tibet demonstrators protesting against China's human rights record.

Protesters later tried to snatch the Olympic torch from the hands of the former Blue Peter presenter Konnie Huq.

Thousands of people are lining the 31-mile route to Greenwich's O2 Arena.

It is still unclear whether the Chinese Ambassador to London, Fu Ying, will take part in the relay after fears her presence could be a flashpoint for protesters.

There will be a mobile protective ring around the torch as it is carried by bus, on foot and by light railway past some of London's most iconic sights.

Gordon Brown has faced demands not to welcome the torch in Downing Street and to boycott the Beijing Olympics unless China opens talks with the Dalai Lama.

The prime minister has resisted the calls - pointing out that the exiled Tibetan leader opposes such action.

But he came under fresh attack ahead of the procession from Liberal Democrat leader Nick Clegg who branded the PM's participation "wholly inappropriate".

"Of course there is politics in this and one certainly can't just brush over the fact that human rights are being systematically abused on an extraordinary scale in China," he told the BBC's Andrew Marr.

Mr Clegg said "a calibrated approach" - such as refusing to engage in ceremonial duties - was the kind of "leverage" that would work with Chinese officials.

Meanwhile, Sebastian Coe - chairman of the London 2012 organising committee - hoped the protests did not become the focus of the procession.

"International sport has done far more to bring disparate communities together, sometimes communities and countries that are barely on speaking terms, than frankly most politicians have managed," he told BBC Radio 5 Live.

"If there are peaceful demonstrations that's acceptable but I do hope people recognise that this is actually a celebration of sport and Olympic values."

Those taking part in the relay, which will start at 1030BST, include 10 Olympic champions, 18 schoolchildren and public figures such as news reader Sir Trevor McDonald and musician Vanessa Mae.
Double Olympic champion Dame Kelly Holmes will run the last stage of the route to complete the relay before lighting the Olympic cauldron in front of 5,000 spectators.

On its journey through the city the flame will be passed between runners and cyclists and onto an open-topped bus.

Despite bitter temperatures and sleet, impromptu carnivals are expected as the torch passes iconic landmarks such as Nelson's Column, St Paul's Cathedral and Tower Bridge.

The flame will complete the London leg of its journey with a finale event at the O2 Arena headlined by the Sugababes. It will then leave for Paris.

Other Olympians who will take part as torch bearers are marathon world record holder Paula Radcliffe and champion rower Sir Steven Redgrave.

Chinatown is expected to give the relay a particularly warm welcome but there will also be a strong police presence as a number of pro-Tibet groups have said they will hold protests.

The Metropolitan Police said 2,000 officers would be mobilised to maintain order along the route of the relay.

A spokesman said Scotland Yard had heard from six organisations, including the Free Tibet movement, the Falun Gong spiritual group and the Burma campaign, which were planning to send 500 demonstrators between them.

The torch was lit in Olympia, Greece, last week and will go through 20 countries before being carried into the Beijing Games opening ceremony on 8 August.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7332942.stm

This is absolutely stupid. The Olympic torch needing a mass armed escort from the police. We dont want this tainted torch here - the Chinese should have taken it round their own country and left it at that.

My personal opinion is that we should have said to China we will not take part in any celebrations of you holding the Olympics while you continue to act in the way you do over Tibet and the rights of your own people. We will not attend any of the non-sporting events, not even the opening ceremony.

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Franko
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Yeah. Personally, I would like to say to the government of China that you aren't quite ready for primetime. You still have a ways to go. Why the fear of democracy ?

Hands of Tibet. Quit painting the Dalai Lama as though he's your "Bin Laden".

Keep your eyes of Taiwan as well. Someone needs to tell the current regime off.

Then there is their complicity in the Darfur holocaust.


Frontline: On Our Watch


The award-winning documentary series Frontline details China's complicity in this atrocity. A good watch if one is interested, and it streams well online.

I'm boycotting the Chinese Olympics for these very reasons. Their current leadership wants their cake and eat it too.

I say no. I hope the whole thing turns into a PR disaster.


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Admiralbill_gomec
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I think this is classless, but then again, so is our society.

The Olympics are above this, or they're supposed to be.

While I think the IOC has become incredibly corrupt and they never should have given China the games, there are better ways to protest it than this. The Olympics have a long and storied history. Hell, back during Greek games wars were suspended during this time and enemies competed against each other.

Vandalizing the symbol of the Olympics just angers people; it does not endear people to your cause.
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ds9074
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Admiralbill_gomec
Apr 8 2008, 03:21 PM
I think this is classless, but then again, so is our society.

The Olympics are above this, or they're supposed to be.

While I think the IOC has become incredibly corrupt and they never should have given China the games, there are better ways to protest it than this. The Olympics have a long and storied history. Hell, back during Greek games wars were suspended during this time and enemies competed against each other.

Vandalizing the symbol of the Olympics just angers people; it does not endear people to your cause.

I agree with you in the sense that the sport should go on. That is ultimately what the Olympics is all about.

However as I said I dont think there is any reason why we should play along with China in terms of all the rest of the PR stuff that goes with the games. The torch relays should have been cancelled in protest along with attendance at the opening ceremony. That would have hit the Chinese leadership hard because they want to be see as a modern, acceptable state.
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Admiralbill_gomec
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Me, I won't watch, and I won't support it financially either.
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Dandandat
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Time to put something here
ds9074
Apr 8 2008, 01:04 PM
However as I said I dont think there is any reason why we should play along with China in terms of all the rest of the PR stuff that goes with the games. The torch relays should have been cancelled in protest along with attendance at the opening ceremony. That would have hit the Chinese leadership hard because they want to be see as a modern, acceptable state.

Sure there's a reason, after China was given the games the leaders and other countries had no choice but go along.

For all its faults China is an important part of the world and if you ever wish to correct those faults you have to be in a position to correct them. Chinese mentality is not like your own. You can't assume they will react to the message you intend to give then in the sane way you would. They will not take the opportunity to feel ashamed of what they have done or do and look to change it. They will become insulted and recoil from any progress that might have otherwise been made with them diplomatically.
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ds9074
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Dandandat
Apr 8 2008, 06:51 PM
ds9074
Apr 8 2008, 01:04 PM
However as I said I dont think there is any reason why we should play along with China in terms of all the rest of the PR stuff that goes with the games. The torch relays should have been cancelled in protest along with attendance at the opening ceremony. That would have hit the Chinese leadership hard because they want to be see as a modern, acceptable state.

Sure there's a reason, after China was given the games the leaders and other countries had no choice but go along.

For all its faults China is an important part of the world and if you ever wish to correct those faults you have to be in a position to correct them. Chinese mentality is not like your own. You can't assume they will react to the message you intend to give then in the sane way you would. They will not take the opportunity to feel ashamed of what they have done or do and look to change it. They will become insulted and recoil from any progress that might have otherwise been made with them diplomatically.

Of course they had a choice. The Chinese government cannot force people to attend its events or allow the torch relays.

Personally I think China wants to be accepted into the fold of what you could call 'respectable' nations. Yet at the same time they wont give up their authoritarian ways.

By boycotting the ceremonial events we would say to China clearly that it is not acceptable or respectable to act as you have done in Tibet or over Darfur etc.
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Dandandat
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Time to put something here
And what they will say is "You have dishonored me, one of the most intolerable things you could have done and so now to spite you I will become less friendly and accessible" and then they will recoil from other diplomatic endeavors, things that might have moved then closer to the goal you wish to attach with the message or protest.

You have to accept that the Chinese clutter is different then our own, you won't shame them into changing. Shaming them will only push them farther away from you. You message of protest will have the opposite effect then the one you want.

World leaders know this; this is why they have no choice but to give Chain its day. A better way to reach Chain over this issue is to have a select group of world leaders use the venue as another avenue to talk with Chinese world leaders. The Chinese will be much more susceptible to this then protest.
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Admiralbill_gomec
UberAdmiral
I can think of one better way to reach China...

http://www.militarypictures.info/d/150-2/tomahawk_launch.jpg

:lol:
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Minuet
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Fleet Admiral Assistant wRench, Chief Supper Officer
I can't access your link AB.
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somerled
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Admiral MacDonald RN
Admiralbill_gomec
Apr 9 2008, 06:13 AM
I can think of one better way to reach China...

http://www.militarypictures.info/d/150-2/tomahawk_launch.jpg

:lol:

I hope you are not advocating a preemptive nuclear strike against China over Tibet.

The link is dead here too BTW.
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Admiralbill_gomec
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Minuet
Apr 8 2008, 06:01 PM
I can't access your link AB.

Funny, neither than can I. It was a TLAM-C launch from an Arleigh Burke destroyer, and no Somerled, that version is not nuclear.
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UncleSlickhead
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There are any number of things that I don't get about all this stuff.

First, what is this with boycotting the OPENING OF THE OLYMPIC GAMES? Oh, I'm Gordon Brown, and I detest China's human rights record, so I'm not going to show up for the opening ceremonies, although my nation's athletes will be there, and they'll also be competing in the games. Don't forget to watch them on the BBC.
Pip pip, cheerio!

Am I the only person who can recall a time when nations actually had testicles and would boycott the GAMES THEMSELVES? Whatever happened to having the courage of your convictions?

Also, these protests in the wake of the torch are just as stupid, aren't they?
Where were these bleeding hearts when it was announced that China would host the Olympics? Were they out in front of the IOC offices? Not that I can recall.
And how stupid is the IOC? When the protests lead to riots, they simply change the route.
When one of the runners decides to carry a Tibetan flag in a quiet, dignified protest, they take the torch away from him.

Am I the only one who sees something wrong with this?

This whole thing just bugs the crap out of me.
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Hoss
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Don't make me use my bare hands on you.
I lost interest in the Olympics and have a low opinion of the organization that runs it a long time ago.
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ds9074
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UncleSlickhead
 
Oh, I'm Gordon Brown, and I detest China's human rights record, so I'm not going to show up for the opening ceremonies

Well officially Brown never intended to go to the opening ceremony. Thats what the Prime Ministers office are saying. Their account is that it isnt a boycott because he wasnt going in the first place. Princess Anne was always going to be the nominated dignitary representing Britain at the Opening Ceremony.

Gordon Brown and the Mayor of London (whoever that might be after 1st May) will be at the closing ceremony to recieve the torch on behalf of London as the next host city.
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