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Bush gave Iraq Update Speech today; Explain these points to me please
Topic Started: Mar 19 2008, 09:17 PM (470 Views)
Dandandat
Member Avatar
Time to put something here
ds9074
Mar 21 2008, 07:29 PM
Data's Cat's Sister
Mar 21 2008, 11:33 PM
Part of the problem with this speech is that it is the product of a hostile media. It isn't enough for our politicans to say these days 'Well, its complicated' or 'we did the best we could but were still not done.' Politicians can't admit fault, or at least feel they can't, because if they do the media will jump down their necks with stories about how they are failing and should quit.

So politicans often fall in the trip of spinning or trying to dress up the truth.

The media like to hype things up but they cannot be blamed for it all.

If a politician has made an error and is at fault that damages their reputation for competency. Media or no media hype people don't tend to like their leaders to be error prone, at least not repeatedly.

Politicians try to spin their way out of errors and situations where they are at fault as much because they feel admitting mistakes makes them look incompetent as any media reaction.

I also think a certain amount of self denial goes on in politics, aided by the bureaucracy that surrounds politicians. They are brought statistics which show how well policy X is working, they visit places to see how things are going but before they arrive everything is cleaned up etc. So sometimes they may actually end up believing what to those outside looks like spin.

It would seem to me President Bush has had a golden opportunity to be completely candid about the state of affairs in Iraq and indeed across the whole political field. He is not running again for Office and neither is anyone from his administration, nor is his party in control of Congress anymore. Any errors or failures he wanted to admit to from now on could be his alone and, while short term he might gain little, long term it might help him in those history books.

Of course in the UK this argument is redundant. Our Great Leader makes the right decisions at all times. ;)

Yet investigative history has shown that some of the best leaders our respective countries have had in the past had many faults that where kept from the public. In fact so many that I wonder if they had been know whether we would call these people our greatest leaders today.
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ds9074
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Admiral
Dandandat
Mar 22 2008, 05:57 PM
ds9074
Mar 21 2008, 07:29 PM
Data's Cat's Sister
Mar 21 2008, 11:33 PM
Part of the problem with this speech is that it is the product of a hostile media. It isn't enough for our politicans to say these days 'Well, its complicated' or 'we did the best we could but were still not done.' Politicians can't admit fault, or at least feel they can't, because if they do the media will jump down their necks with stories about how they are failing and should quit.

So politicans often fall in the trip of spinning or trying to dress up the truth.

The media like to hype things up but they cannot be blamed for it all.

If a politician has made an error and is at fault that damages their reputation for competency. Media or no media hype people don't tend to like their leaders to be error prone, at least not repeatedly.

Politicians try to spin their way out of errors and situations where they are at fault as much because they feel admitting mistakes makes them look incompetent as any media reaction.

I also think a certain amount of self denial goes on in politics, aided by the bureaucracy that surrounds politicians. They are brought statistics which show how well policy X is working, they visit places to see how things are going but before they arrive everything is cleaned up etc. So sometimes they may actually end up believing what to those outside looks like spin.

It would seem to me President Bush has had a golden opportunity to be completely candid about the state of affairs in Iraq and indeed across the whole political field. He is not running again for Office and neither is anyone from his administration, nor is his party in control of Congress anymore. Any errors or failures he wanted to admit to from now on could be his alone and, while short term he might gain little, long term it might help him in those history books.

Of course in the UK this argument is redundant. Our Great Leader makes the right decisions at all times. ;)

Yet investigative history has shown that some of the best leaders our respective countries have had in the past had many faults that where kept from the public. In fact so many that I wonder if they had been know whether we would call these people our greatest leaders today.

We are now living in a very different era when information travels far more quickly and it much harder to keep things from the population.

For example Churchill kept news that he had a stroke secret for the last couple years of his time as Prime Minister. No one could possibly get away with that these days.
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Sgt. Jaggs
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How about a Voyager Movie
Yup. The press helped Hide FDRs Polio and JFKs back and other health problems
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Dandandat
Member Avatar
Time to put something here
ds9074
Mar 22 2008, 01:18 PM
Dandandat
Mar 22 2008, 05:57 PM
ds9074
Mar 21 2008, 07:29 PM
Data's Cat's Sister
Mar 21 2008, 11:33 PM
Part of the problem with this speech is that it is the product of a hostile media. It isn't enough for our politicans to say these days 'Well, its complicated' or 'we did the best we could but were still not done.' Politicians can't admit fault, or at least feel they can't, because if they do the media will jump down their necks with stories about how they are failing and should quit.

So politicans often fall in the trip of spinning or trying to dress up the truth.

The media like to hype things up but they cannot be blamed for it all.

If a politician has made an error and is at fault that damages their reputation for competency. Media or no media hype people don't tend to like their leaders to be error prone, at least not repeatedly.

Politicians try to spin their way out of errors and situations where they are at fault as much because they feel admitting mistakes makes them look incompetent as any media reaction.

I also think a certain amount of self denial goes on in politics, aided by the bureaucracy that surrounds politicians. They are brought statistics which show how well policy X is working, they visit places to see how things are going but before they arrive everything is cleaned up etc. So sometimes they may actually end up believing what to those outside looks like spin.

It would seem to me President Bush has had a golden opportunity to be completely candid about the state of affairs in Iraq and indeed across the whole political field. He is not running again for Office and neither is anyone from his administration, nor is his party in control of Congress anymore. Any errors or failures he wanted to admit to from now on could be his alone and, while short term he might gain little, long term it might help him in those history books.

Of course in the UK this argument is redundant. Our Great Leader makes the right decisions at all times. ;)

Yet investigative history has shown that some of the best leaders our respective countries have had in the past had many faults that where kept from the public. In fact so many that I wonder if they had been know whether we would call these people our greatest leaders today.

We are now living in a very different era when information travels far more quickly and it much harder to keep things from the population.

For example Churchill kept news that he had a stroke secret for the last couple years of his time as Prime Minister. No one could possibly get away with that these days.

Yes that’s the point;

We live in a different time where technology brings us information more quickly and makes it harder for politicians to keep information from the people.

But what we don’t live in is a different time where technology makes men more noble and less flawed. Yet for some reason we seem to judge our leaders as if we do live in that time.


Also if Churchill’s stroke or FDR’s Polio where the only secrete faults that I could reefer to in this discussion, my comment would be rather weak. Unfortunate Churchill and FDR did things during WWII that would make Water-Boarding, Abu grave, Guantanamo, and warrantless wire taps look like child’s play.
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