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| Bush gave Iraq Update Speech today; Explain these points to me please | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Mar 19 2008, 09:17 PM (471 Views) | |
| Sgt. Jaggs | Mar 19 2008, 09:17 PM Post #1 |
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How about a Voyager Movie
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President Bush spoke on the 5th anniversary of the Invasion of Iraq today. He points assuredly to these two "facts". 1. The world is a better place without Saddam Hussein 2. America is safer because the dude was overthrown. Can someone explain why we are safer now that Iraq is where it is, uncertain, unstable and actually critical versus a known quantity while Saddam was boxed in? Wew hew he was shooting at our planes. I wouldn't mind Bush saying, hey we made some mistakes and we are making the best of the situation and here is why we need to stick around and tighten it up a bit longer but WOW........ I wonder if his assertions are accurate even beyond his opinion. I do not want to pay for this war for the rest of eternity. As for what some say on the radio: "What about all those who have died Jag? What about those soldiers who have sacraficed so much? Dare we pull out and their pain and lives lost are for nothing?"
To that I say there are many more lives and injuries that may be saved, prevented that would be forthcoming so that argument is short sighted. Saddam was a threat. Turns out he was not. He wants/Has/seeks WMD.
Ummmmm..... tell me again Mr. President why its important to be there, win there, stay there............. I want to be with you but I am loosing my patience.Further listening to your broken record speeches about that Meglomaniac that dropped off a short rope some time ago is not convincing to me. In fact I am starting to become angry hearing it from you. I am more concerned about: 1. Gas prices 2. Inflation 3. This bullshit economy 4. Our bullshit dollar In the meantime Hannity is playing clips of every angry black preacher he can find. Today hes on the black panthers and Farrakan to. David Cone. :angry: You know I grew out of my Democrat Liberal youth and was growing into my conservative values and WHAM the Bleeping Republican party yanks out Mitt Romney and gives me Juan Pablo McCain, Amigo of Lindsey Grahmnesty of South Carolina. :angry: I realize that what makes me angry is the shit Hannity is feeding to me. This is a big turn off. Back to the main topic, I don't buy waht Bush is sellin. I used to believe it, I was scared of Saddam. Now I feel like I know alot more about the problems and I don't get how these ass holes did not know about Sunni and Shiites. What a shitstorm it would cause to Rip away Sunni minority political power. I think we may have been done a misservice by the whole thing. By the way for Liberals who said this war was about oil. Bullshit too. Oil prices are absurd. OPEC will STRANGLE Americans while LiBs won't let us drill anywhere!!! Somebody needs to talk some reason to my angry 38 year old white voting Ass!!!!!! |
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| Dandandat | Mar 19 2008, 09:29 PM Post #2 |
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Time to put something here
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Then the majority of America should not have supported war in the first place. We are talking about war not going out to see a bad movie. People can’t just through up their hands now and want to go home. Its call sleeping in the bed you made. |
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| Sgt. Jaggs | Mar 19 2008, 10:31 PM Post #3 |
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How about a Voyager Movie
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Yeah but its 5 years. How about in 10? Or forever? How is that making me safer? How is that threat worth that? |
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| ds9074 | Mar 20 2008, 04:48 AM Post #4 |
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Admiral
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Don't know about in America but we have a principle here that no Parliament - and by extension no electorate - can bind a future Parliament/electorate. Now obviously with a situation of war thats a bit more complicated but the underlying principle is the same. We reserve the right in all things to change our minds and leave. |
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| Dandandat | Mar 20 2008, 07:23 AM Post #5 |
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Time to put something here
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Yea 5 years 10 years? so what? The reason that part of the world is F-up as it is is because people in the past gave the same argument you are giving now and walked away from their responsibilities. But to make it more clear, my argument had nothing to do with threat to you or the rest of us in America. It was about us living up to the commitments we made. If that takes forever, then it takes forever – we shouldn’t have made the commitment to enter a war we where not committed to. But we did, and now we need to live with the consequences. |
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| Dandandat | Mar 20 2008, 07:32 AM Post #6 |
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Time to put something here
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Of course you have the right to do what you want, so do we in America. If we order our government to leave they must leave, if you order your government to leave they too must leave. But shall we give that order? We have governments for the people by the people, we are responsible for everything our governments do, we are the ultimate authority. There is a growing trend in western democracies for the citizens to absolve themselves from all responsibility, blaming all the woes on their democratically elected governments, and then moving blissfully through the destruction they caused believing "It's not my fault." We seem to have this unending ability to say one thing and then later do another thing all the while believing we are being legitimate. But imagine how that looks to the rest of the world? Personally I find that mentality disgusting. |
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| captain_proton_au | Mar 20 2008, 10:34 AM Post #7 |
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A Robot in Disguise
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In the worlds scope, nothing really changed either way |
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| HistoryDude | Mar 20 2008, 10:54 AM Post #8 |
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Shaken, not stirred...
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As for President Bush's words, he has to justify the expense in lives and dollars of his decision for his legacy. I don't agree with the war, and I didn't agree with it when it began; but I also believe in the sentiment that we made our bed and now must sleep in it; and take responsibility to do our best and try and build a stable Iraq. So I'm not for just up and pulling out. Plus, I can't argue with the fact that I was in the minority when the war began. But, oh, how fickle is the American public! Maybe the world public is the same, but we definitely are...
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| ImpulseEngine | Mar 21 2008, 01:07 PM Post #9 |
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Admiral
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I wasn't for going to war with Iraq when we did. In retrospect, I still believe that was right. Nonetheless, we did go to war and I agree with the general sentiment that we must now live up to the commitment that we made. However, I also believe there needs to be an exit plan. By that, I mean some goals that say what we want to have accomplished by when. That needs to be clearly communicated to the Iraqi forces who should be able to take over and manage on their own once we have left. Without that plan, I'm sure they'll be happy to have us for as long as we're willing to stay and then where's their motivation for getting things done ASAP? They need to understand that this is NOT forever and is NOT unlimited - because THAT wasn't what we committed to. In fact, I think the exit plan should include a target date. If they can see the end of our assistance, they will be more likely to pull it together by then. That's not to say that we can't change our minds, decide they aren't quite ready when that date arrives, and stay longer if the need exists. But at least a date would clearly communicate this is not forever. In the meantime, I too am concerned about the economy and I do believe the war is one factor that is contributing to its current weakened state. Don't even get me started on that one. Hannity... :rolleyes: |
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| Data's Cat's Sister | Mar 21 2008, 06:33 PM Post #10 |
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Commodore
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Part of the problem with this speech is that it is the product of a hostile media. It isn't enough for our politicans to say these days 'Well, its complicated' or 'we did the best we could but were still not done.' Politicians can't admit fault, or at least feel they can't, because if they do the media will jump down their necks with stories about how they are failing and should quit. So politicans often fall in the trip of spinning or trying to dress up the truth. |
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| Dandandat | Mar 21 2008, 06:38 PM Post #11 |
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Time to put something here
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I agree with that 100%, one of the bigger problems people have had with the President and this war is that they feel he is not being strait with them. But its a ketch 22, if he laid it all out on the line and treated people like they wanted to be treated they would find fualt in that too. So the leader is left cutting their losses and that leads to spin. |
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| ds9074 | Mar 21 2008, 07:29 PM Post #12 |
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Admiral
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The media like to hype things up but they cannot be blamed for it all. If a politician has made an error and is at fault that damages their reputation for competency. Media or no media hype people don't tend to like their leaders to be error prone, at least not repeatedly. Politicians try to spin their way out of errors and situations where they are at fault as much because they feel admitting mistakes makes them look incompetent as any media reaction. I also think a certain amount of self denial goes on in politics, aided by the bureaucracy that surrounds politicians. They are brought statistics which show how well policy X is working, they visit places to see how things are going but before they arrive everything is cleaned up etc. So sometimes they may actually end up believing what to those outside looks like spin. It would seem to me President Bush has had a golden opportunity to be completely candid about the state of affairs in Iraq and indeed across the whole political field. He is not running again for Office and neither is anyone from his administration, nor is his party in control of Congress anymore. Any errors or failures he wanted to admit to from now on could be his alone and, while short term he might gain little, long term it might help him in those history books. Of course in the UK this argument is redundant. Our Great Leader makes the right decisions at all times.
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| Sgt. Jaggs | Mar 21 2008, 10:26 PM Post #13 |
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How about a Voyager Movie
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I agree with these. As for Hannity I like that he is Genuine and openly honest about what and who he is. That being said, his agenda and drum beat sometimes seem to be intended to whip up a fury. This Latest overkill was a huge turnoff. |
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| ImpulseEngine | Mar 22 2008, 09:37 AM Post #14 |
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Admiral
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Hannity is very good at what he does. He has "fact" after "fact" either in his head or at his disposal and can whip them out very quickly. He knows precisely what he wants to say about each topic. When callers oppose him, he often can keep them off balance with that ability because he can whip out these "facts" while they aren't nearly as prepared. So Hannity usually appears to be right. But I put"facts" in quotes because sometimes they are facts and sometimes they are simply inaccurate. Case in point is Obama's comments taken out of context. But Hannity becomes very believable even when he's just plain wrong. That's what I don't like about him. |
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| Sgt. Jaggs | Mar 22 2008, 10:51 AM Post #15 |
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How about a Voyager Movie
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I better move my next remark to the race card thread. |
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9:32 AM Jul 11