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The Race Card and Uncle Tom Card; Sick and Tired of the Double Standard
Topic Started: Mar 13 2008, 07:42 PM (1,562 Views)
Minuet
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Fleet Admiral Assistant wRench, Chief Supper Officer
RTW
Mar 15 2008, 01:14 PM
ImpulseEngine
Mar 15 2008, 10:19 AM
Jag
Mar 14 2008, 10:22 PM
Is this the Pastor that our President would be seeking counsel and advice from and prayer with? In times of war?"
Wow. So now Obama isn't able to think for himself.

:rolleyes:

RTW let me help you and IE out here if I can. Note this is my first comment in the thread and I haven't picked a "side". I really am just trying to help.

What exactly did you mean with the :rolleyes: smiley? It is rather confusing. Impuseengine was not saying that Obama could not speak for himself. He was questioning why Jag assumed that the pastor was reflecting Obama's own opinion. His commnent was sarcastic and I thought that was pretty clear even through the medium of a message board. :shrug:

You followed that up with a video that supported IE's point that Obama can indeed speak for himself and that he has denounced the comments of his pastor.

Quite honestly I am thinking right now that you either didn't mean to use the smiley you used or you don't understand the smiley the way most of us interpret it. You could probably clear this up pretty quickly with an explanation of your use of the smiley. :yes:
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Wichita
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The Adminstrator wRench
Minuet
Mar 16 2008, 01:56 PM
Quite honestly I am thinking right now that you either didn't mean to use the smiley you used or you don't understand the smiley the way most of us interpret it. You could probably clear this up pretty quickly with an explanation of your use of the smiley. :yes:

If there is one thing that I am absolutely certain of is that "most of us" don't interpret anything the same way.

ImpusleEngine and RTW are free to explain - or not explain - what they want. Personally, I vote for just moving the discussion along.

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Minuet
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Fleet Admiral Assistant wRench, Chief Supper Officer
Wichita
Mar 16 2008, 05:47 PM
Minuet
Mar 16 2008, 01:56 PM
Quite honestly I am thinking right now that you either didn't mean to use the smiley you used or you don't understand the smiley the way most of us interpret it. You could probably clear this up pretty quickly with an explanation of your use of the smiley.  :yes:

If there is one thing that I am absolutely certain of is that "most of us" don't interpret anything the same way.

ImpusleEngine and RTW are free to explain - or not explain - what they want. Personally, I vote for just moving the discussion along.

No problem. I was just trying to be helpful. Not forcing anyone to reply or explain anything. I was just trying to help the communication around here.
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Wichita
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The Adminstrator wRench
That's the same reason that I suggested the discussion move along.

The last time someone made the assumption that I was being sarcastic, they were 100% in error and and the communication was a lot poorer as the result.

Just because we think it is 'clear to everyone' doesn't mean that it is actually 'clear to everyone' in the same manner that we think it is.

Better to just let those involved speak for themselves.
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8247
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Apparently we look like this now
Barack Obama in his damage control on Fox said that he did not believe what this pastor said. If you go to church for a while, you will begin to hold those ideals. case in point, Michelle Obama's comments, saying that for the first time in her life she was proud to be an American, and then last week saying that America was a mean nation. If anyone has made that connection, I haven't heard it yet.

Also, Obama said that he wasnt at any of those services. That may not be true. I got a link to a story in an email, but I havent had a chance to read the story yet. When I do, I'll post it.
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Admiralbill_gomec
UberAdmiral
There are reports that Obama was at more than one of these sermons, and evidence that he was nodding along with the rhetoric. That could have been "being caught up in the moment" but his statements claiming he didn't know about Pastor Wright's sentiments clearly aren't true.
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ImpulseEngine
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^
That would be "clearly" only if those reports are accurate.
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8247
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Apparently we look like this now
http://newsmax.com/kessler/Obama_hat%20e_A...omo_code=9991-1

Here's the link to the story I got, but I'm sure the next 5-10 posts here will be a debate on whether or not its reliable. For the record, I don't believe it or disbelieve it at this point.
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RTW
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:banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

If the story 8247 linked to is true... why do politicians make these things so difficult.

I wanted to believe Obama.... there's still hope. If true, why couldn't he have just said, "I heard him spew those vile things and I vehemently disagree. I don't agree with my church on some issues."

Why couldn't Bill Clinton have said, "I did it. I shouldn't have done it. It was wrong. I ask for your forgiveness."

I'd even take a Costanzian, "Was that wrong?"

I guess Spitzer was almost on the right track with, "...it's a personal and private tragedy" ... except using public funds made it not so private, and it wasn't an unavoidable accident gone terribly wrong. I'm not even sure it's personal due to his status as Mayor. While that's "3 strikes" - he didn't LIE and deny the allegations, did he?

Dang, it's so bad that I've given up on a politician being frank and honest and have had my expectations reduced to simply not outright lying to me. How depressing.
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whitestar
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Captain
Don't understand the surprise by all, just a matter of time till the racial issue came into focus of the campaign. The big surprise for me is that it is possible for Obama to make it this far and seriously challenge for President.

I do worry when I see Americans can be as portrayed in the movies
Quote:
 
After watching all of this my Wife brought up a great point I hadn't thought of. "Is this the Pastor that our President would be seeking counsel and Advice from and prayer with? In times of war?"
Why not just vote the pastor president? Shoot Bush's pastor cause he really screwed up before Iraq
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Sgt. Jaggs
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How about a Voyager Movie
I took yhe time yesterday to UTube the entire Obama speech. I am even more disappointed with Hannity's show.
I am not saying that context justifies outrageous or hatefull speech.
Beyond that which Obama has condemned I listened fully to the man. What I heard made alot of sense to me.

There is a Black American experience that I have never experienced, a point of view that in its entirety looks different to me that sound clips looped repeatedly. It has occurred to me that This is at least as Divisive asthe comments themselves were.
Hannity only does this because it is ammunition for his agenda. I understand him but I would rather think for myself and examine the entire deal as I ask questions.
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ImpulseEngine
Admiral
Jag,
I agree. And that agenda is what it's all about.
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Franko
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Shower Moderator


Obama has handled this crisis well. The more I watch this guy, and the more I hear him speak, I realize that he exhibits a good leadership personality. Whether he will make a good president, I do not know, but I do believe that he is a "class" act and that he will be more of a unifying leader than Hillary.

Can't wait to see what the Clinton machine throws at Obama next.


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Wichita
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The Adminstrator wRench
First, I never listen to Hannity and Colmes because - in addition to being as entertaining as fingernails on a chalkboard - they both are only about pushing their own agendas. I would believe virtually anything said about their intentions.

I would disagree that Obama handled it well, however. I have heard that his minister's sermons were inflammatory on the Internet for more than a year. Even if he personally saw absolutely nothing wrong with them, there is clear evidence that he had an idea that others may have found them offensive (for example, he "disinvited" the minister from his candidacy announcement speech because of the minister's reputation) and yet, he was not prepared to deal with the crisis.

Yes, Obama made "A" speech but it was one he had days to prepare for and he still made some critical mistakes in it. As president he doesn't get that lead time. He will be judged forever on what he says in the first moment. Guilliani is thought well of post 9-11 (when he wasn't nearly as popular pre-9-11) largely because he said the right things right away. His answer "more than we can bear to think about" in reaction to the question about the potential death toll was something that will live forever. Bush, in the wake of Katrina, actually DID many "right" things. The Federal government itsefl was responsible for saving thousands of people off the rooftops but you wouldn't know if from the coverage because Bush failed to make that clear immediately.

Even with days to prepare, Obama used the phrase "typical white American" and compared HIS perception of what that means to his own grandmother's reaction. First, it was a particularly nasty thing to do to his grandmother and second, it was racially inflammatory.

If your"persona" is about racial healing, then, at best, he is a hypocrite.

We couldn't find a "typical" white American on this board - let alone in the entire country.

As to the "black American experience" - I agree there is one and that it is not one that I have experienced. However, I would disagree that there is a "TYPICAL black American experience". Had McCain made the claim that there was, he would have - justifiably - been savaged in the press. Why does Obama, not only get to use that type of language, but gets praised for it?

And, further, you could say that there is a "______ American experience" about any group. I have no clue what it is to truly be a white male and others don't have an idea what is to be a middle-aged Irish, Mormon female.

If he is claiming that the "black American experience" is the only important one, then he is being racially discriminatory.

If he focuses on all the various potential divisions, how he does he plan to "unite" the country as he claims he wants to do?




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ImpulseEngine
Admiral
Wichita,

I was just looking at a transcript of the speech and can't even find the word "typical" in it anywhere. Am I missing it?

Other than his reference at the beginning to being a descendant of a white grandmother, this is the only thing that he said about his grandmother:

Quote:
 
I can no more disown him than I can disown the black community. I can no more disown him than I can my white grandmother - a woman who helped raise me, a woman who sacrificed again and again for me, a woman who loves me as much as she loves anything in this world, but a woman who once confessed her fear of black men who passed by her on the street, and who on more than one occasion has uttered racial or ethnic stereotypes that made me cringe.
Am I missing something? I don't see what you're referring to at all. :shrug:

Quote:
 
If he focuses on all the various potential divisions, how he does he plan to "unite" the country as he claims he wants to do?
He was deliberately NOT focusing on any of this until other people decided to make it something he HAD to speak about...
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