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Hillary Clinton; I don't get it
Topic Started: Feb 6 2008, 04:15 PM (1,522 Views)
Minuet
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Fleet Admiral Assistant wRench, Chief Supper Officer
8247
Feb 7 2008, 11:50 AM
Minuet
Feb 7 2008, 08:00 AM
8247
Feb 7 2008, 03:11 AM
I really don't have to respond to your questions, or provide links. IE wanted to know why people don't like Hillary. I listed many reasons why, and I'm not going to let you pick apart my opinion in an attempt to make me look foolish. IE asked a question, I answered it. My opinion is just as valid as anyone elses...even yours. And, I really don't care what your opinion of my opinion is. My answers do not have to "qualify" to be considered on this board, nor do I have to provide links to articles (other people's opinions) to back up my own opinions.

Please provide a link to an article to qualify your opinion of my opinion, and why your opinion is better than my opinion.

Thank you.

No, you don't have to respond to anything.

But your comments don't stand up to much scrutiny. The opinions are not based on facts. I am not trying to ridicule you. I only laughed at the one particular response because what I quoted is from YOUR OWN LINK. For the responses I asked quite serious questions.

When you make a list such as you did and try to pass it off as a list of facts you are subject to be asked for proof. If you cannot be bothered that's fine. But don't expect me to have much respect for your opinion.

You don't respect ANYONE's opinion.

I often agree to disagree. I don't think I disrespected Wichita's comments. In this thread I have respected Dandandat's opinion as well, even though I disagreed with it. Same with Admiralbill and even Rowskid, as both presented policies they disagreed with rather then unproven allegations.

Maybe it's just the way certain people present themselves. You didn't present an opinion. You presented a list of allegations as the truth. You stated you didn't like Hillary because she had done things that you were unable to prove she had actually done.

Don't blame me for your intellectual laziness.
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RTW
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Vice Admiral
Cheating on your wife and cutting ties with her is bad, but cheating on your wife and keeping her around is something to overlook?

I did not know that.
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Minuet
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RTW
Feb 7 2008, 11:56 AM
Cheating on your wife and cutting ties with her is bad, but cheating on your wife and keeping her around is something to overlook?

I did not know that.

I thought we were talking about Hillary in this thread, not Bill. ;)
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Dandandat
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Time to put something here
Minuet
Feb 7 2008, 11:21 AM
:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

I love how you whitewashed that one Dante. "Personal reasons" :rotfl:

Would those personal reasons have anything to do with him cheating on his wife, and dumping her unceremoniously? :angel:

Yes it would, we aren’t talking about Rudy Giuliani, there was no need to write a whole history of the man. Cheating on ones wife is a personal matter is it not? so please spare me.

Quote:
 
I never heard about problems with his health. That didn't stop him from running for the Republican nomination for President.  :shrug:


You do understand that it has been over 6 years dont you? Health problems do have a way of getting better don’t they?

But because you feel its important it Giuliani had prostate cancer.


Quote:
 
Usually winning by 10% is considered a landslide. I don't doubt that there are people who feel as you do. But I don't think it is as widespread as the picture you paint.


10% might have been a land slide against Giuliani, not Lazio. As I said he had nothing going for him and she had everything.

Also as I said, to get that 10% she had to promise that she was not going to run for president in 2004 and had to take ever "I’m a New Yorker" photo op she could.

You can believe what ever you want to believe Minuet, but IE didn’t ask the question he did because only Me, 83724 and RTW don’t like Hillary Clinton. Clinton is a polarizing figure. This is the reason why.


Quote:
 
She also won the New York primary on Tuesday



Yea lets take a look at that.

Obama wins Illinois with 65% to 33% Clinton (now that’s a land slide)

Clinton wins New York 57% to 40%

Looks to me Clinton had a harder time holding her Democratic constituency then Obama.

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Minuet
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Dandandat
Feb 7 2008, 12:03 PM
Minuet
Feb 7 2008, 11:21 AM
:rotfl:  :rotfl:  :rotfl:

I love how you whitewashed that one Dante. "Personal reasons"  :rotfl:

Would those personal reasons have anything to do with him cheating on his wife, and dumping her unceremoniously? :angel:

Yes it would, we aren’t talking about Rudy Giuliani, there was no need to write a whole history of the man. Cheating on ones wife is a personal matter is it not? so please spare me.





It's not a personal matter when you are running for office. The facts are well known. His wife was somewhat of a celebrity on her own with a show on HGTV so many people took her side. Her fan base probably helped drive him out of the race.

Quote:
 
Quote:
 
I never heard about problems with his health. That didn't stop him from running for the Republican nomination for President.  :shrug:


You do understand that it has been over 6 years dont you? Health problems do have a way of getting better don’t they?

But because you feel its important it Giuliani had prostate cancer.


Ok - that qualifies as a bona fide health reason. I am glad he got past that. Seriously.

Quote:
 
Quote:
 
Usually winning by 10% is considered a landslide. I don't doubt that there are people who feel as you do. But I don't think it is as widespread as the picture you paint.


10% might have been a land slide against Giuliani, not Lazio. As I said he had nothing going for him and she had everything.

Also as I said, to get that 10% she had to promise that she was not going to run for president in 2004 and had to take ever "I’m a New Yorker" photo op she could.

You can believe what ever you want to believe Minuet, but IE didn’t ask the question he did because only Me, 83724 and RTW don’t like Hillary Clinton. Clinton is a polarizing figure. This is the reason why.



I didn't say that she wasn't a polarizing figure. What I am questioning is whether the accusations against her are true. I think that there is a lot of concern on the part of conservatives for the fact that she is quite liberal in her views. She is a tough minded individual who has not backed down in the face of attacks against her and this attitude on her part does increase the attacks against her. She has shown that she will not be bullied. Were she a more compromising individual she might not be so polarizing. But because she does not compromise the conservative machine does seem to be pulling out all the stops, per the two articles I linked to.

Quote:
 
Quote:
 
She also won the New York primary on Tuesday



Yea lets take a look at that.

Obama wins Illinois with 65% to 33% Clinton (now that’s a land slide)

Clinton wins New York 57% to 40%

Looks to me Clinton had a harder time holding her Democratic constituency then Obama.


She still won by a large margin. In a state with a large black population.

I like Obama as much as the next person. I understand why people vote for him. I am not pulling for one over the other in the election. But considering that she is holding her own in this race I do question if as many people actually hate her as the picture being presented here, or whether the truth is that the Republicans have been very successful at villifying her unfairly.
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STC
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Commodore
8247
Feb 7 2008, 04:50 PM
Minuet
Feb 7 2008, 08:00 AM
8247
Feb 7 2008, 03:11 AM
I really don't have to respond to your questions, or provide links. IE wanted to know why people don't like Hillary. I listed many reasons why, and I'm not going to let you pick apart my opinion in an attempt to make me look foolish. IE asked a question, I answered it. My opinion is just as valid as anyone elses...even yours. And, I really don't care what your opinion of my opinion is. My answers do not have to "qualify" to be considered on this board, nor do I have to provide links to articles (other people's opinions) to back up my own opinions.

Please provide a link to an article to qualify your opinion of my opinion, and why your opinion is better than my opinion.

Thank you.

No, you don't have to respond to anything.

But your comments don't stand up to much scrutiny. The opinions are not based on facts. I am not trying to ridicule you. I only laughed at the one particular response because what I quoted is from YOUR OWN LINK. For the responses I asked quite serious questions.

When you make a list such as you did and try to pass it off as a list of facts you are subject to be asked for proof. If you cannot be bothered that's fine. But don't expect me to have much respect for your opinion.

You don't respect ANYONE's opinion.

I don't think that is a fair comment.

You expressed a number of opinions and made a number of assertions as if they were somehow universal truths. You were challenged on those by several posters, including myself.

Your opinion is as respected as anyone elses but this is a politics discussion and debating forum and we must expect to be challenged, and be prepared to support our views with theoretical argument and evidence. Asking someone to do this is not a mark of disrespect.

:)
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8247
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Apparently we look like this now
^^^

I provided links for everything I said. Sorry if they weren't good enough for certain people. As I said before, this thread was asking why people don't like Hillary. I responded with my reasons.
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STC
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Dandandat
Feb 7 2008, 04:37 PM
Intrepid
 
I can unequivocally say the same thing for John McCain, Barack Obama and John Edwards. Center-left, Center-right, I can take.


I would have to disagree with this? Barack Obama and John Edwards Center-left - I dont think so. joe lieberman is Center-left Edwards and Obama are just left.

I do find it interesting how different people from different countries perceive left and right. Of course, the perception of what is left and what is right depends on where one is standing.

Here is the Political Compass' take on the U.S. Presidential Primary candidates.

Posted Image

Posted Image

http://www.politicalcompass.org/usprimaries2008
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Minuet
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Fleet Admiral Assistant wRench, Chief Supper Officer
8247
Feb 7 2008, 01:00 PM
^^^

I provided links for everything I said. Sorry if they weren't good enough for certain people. As I said before, this thread was asking why people don't like Hillary. I responded with my reasons.

:headscratch:

Are we talking about THIS thread?

You provided two links only. One of those links proved you were WRONG about a specific incident. The other link was to a comedy sketch about Hillary's laugh.

It is you who have the problem with people disagreeing with you - not the other way around.
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RTW
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Minuet
Feb 7 2008, 09:59 AM
I thought we were talking about Hillary in this thread, not Bill. ;)

Sorry, I couldn't tell.

http://sistertrek.net/index.php?showtopic=...dpost&p=2101107

http://sistertrek.net/index.php?showtopic=...dpost&p=2101110

http://sistertrek.net/index.php?showtopic=...dpost&p=2101193

http://sistertrek.net/index.php?showtopic=...dpost&p=2101195

http://sistertrek.net/index.php?showtopic=...dpost&p=2101209

:shrug:

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RTW
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Quote:
 
While Kucinich and Gravel are depicted on the extreme left in an American context, they would simply be mainstream social democrats within the wider political landscape of Europe.

Your graph/chart places American politicians on a European political scale. The American context should be the one that matters in an American election.
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Minuet
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RTW
Feb 7 2008, 01:20 PM

:headscratch:

Instead of just posting links could you please explain verbally what you are trying to say here?

I honestly don't get the point of the links. Every one of my comments has been about Hillary. The discussion of Gulliani was brought about in relation to his running against her, not against Bill.

I didn't make a personal judgement about him - Your comment made a judgement about Bill however, and had no place in the thread because we are talking about Hillary, not Bill. Bill could be as bad or worse then Gulliani and it would still have nothing to do with why people don't like Hillary. :shrug:
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8247
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Apparently we look like this now
Minuet
Feb 7 2008, 01:14 PM
8247
Feb 7 2008, 01:00 PM
^^^

I provided links for everything I said. Sorry if they weren't good enough for certain people. As I said before, this thread was asking why people don't like Hillary. I responded with my reasons.

:headscratch:

Are we talking about THIS thread?

You provided two links only. One of those links proved you were WRONG about a specific incident. The other link was to a comedy sketch about Hillary's laugh.

It is you who have the problem with people disagreeing with you - not the other way around.

I don't have a problem with people disagreeing with me. Just you, and your elitist holier than thou attitude.

Did someone make you an admininstrator again? You've been acting the way you used to lately.
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Dandandat
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Time to put something here
Minuet
Feb 7 2008, 12:29 PM
Dandandat
Feb 7 2008, 12:03 PM
Minuet
Feb 7 2008, 11:21 AM
:rotfl:  :rotfl:  :rotfl:

I love how you whitewashed that one Dante. "Personal reasons"  :rotfl:

Would those personal reasons have anything to do with him cheating on his wife, and dumping her unceremoniously? :angel:

Yes it would, we aren’t talking about Rudy Giuliani, there was no need to write a whole history of the man. Cheating on ones wife is a personal matter is it not? so please spare me.





It's not a personal matter when you are running for office. The facts are well known. His wife was somewhat of a celebrity on her own with a show on HGTV so many people took her side. Her fan base probably helped drive him out of the race.

Of course, but in this discussion about Hillary Clinton how else am I going to describe it? Should I have said "For health reasons and a public mater" that would make no sense at all. It is a personal matter that was known publicly. I really don’t understand your need to go on about this when its not even close to the subject matter being discussed.

HGTV? What was her fan base two people, it was the combination of dealing with a series health issue and not wanting to also deal with a scandal at the same time that drove him out of the race. I can certainly understand that, such companying must be very emotionally taxing on the nominees and such fatigue is not good when the body is trying to battle cancer. I would assume that he would have mad a go of it anyway no matter how much the scandal would have hurt his chance, because he had no where else to go why not take his chance?


Quote:
 
Quote:
 
Quote:
 
Usually winning by 10% is considered a landslide. I don't doubt that there are people who feel as you do. But I don't think it is as widespread as the picture you paint.


10% might have been a land slide against Giuliani, not Lazio. As I said he had nothing going for him and she had everything.

Also as I said, to get that 10% she had to promise that she was not going to run for president in 2004 and had to take ever "I’m a New Yorker" photo op she could.

You can believe what ever you want to believe Minuet, but IE didn’t ask the question he did because only Me, 83724 and RTW don’t like Hillary Clinton. Clinton is a polarizing figure. This is the reason why.



I didn't say that she wasn't a polarizing figure. What I am questioning is whether the accusations against her are true. I think that there is a lot of concern on the part of conservatives for the fact that she is quite liberal in her views. She is a tough minded individual who has not backed down in the face of attacks against her and this attitude on her part does increase the attacks against her. She has shown that she will not be bullied. Were she a more compromising individual she might not be so polarizing. But because she does not compromise the conservative machine does seem to be pulling out all the stops, per the two articles I linked to.



Your right, where she the type of person that compromised she would be a less polarizing person. It’s the mark of a good leader and a stronger person who can effetely compromise. It’s because of this as well as many of the things discussed here that make her the polarizing person she is.


Which has nothing to do with gender as IE suggested.

To reiterate, along with the inability to compromise effectively. She has also mocked the intelligence of many people as I have stated.


Quote:
 
Quote:
 
Quote:
 
She also won the New York primary on Tuesday



Yea lets take a look at that.

Obama wins Illinois with 65% to 33% Clinton (now that’s a land slide)

Clinton wins New York 57% to 40%

Looks to me Clinton had a harder time holding her Democratic constituency then Obama.


She still won by a large margin. In a state with a large black population.


all that says is that the black vote is not as locked up as Obama would like.


Quote:
 
I like Obama as much as the next person. I understand why people vote for him. I am not pulling for one over the other in the election. But considering that she is holding her own in this race I do question if as many people actually hate her as the picture being presented here, or whether the truth is that the Republicans have been very successful at villifying her unfairly.


She has more power and ability then Obama, and for a time she had more money. It’s amazing that Obama is doing as well as he is and you can’t forget that the Democrats want to win in 2008 and for a long time Hillary was their best chance until Obama got his legs.

If Hillary was a more likable person amongst democrats she may be well ahead for Obama. But it is Obama that is the more likable person and he has profited off of that truth.
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Dandandat
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Time to put something here
STC
Feb 7 2008, 01:06 PM
Dandandat
Feb 7 2008, 04:37 PM
Intrepid
 
I can unequivocally say the same thing for John McCain, Barack Obama and John Edwards. Center-left, Center-right, I can take.


I would have to disagree with this? Barack Obama and John Edwards Center-left - I dont think so. joe lieberman is Center-left Edwards and Obama are just left.

I do find it interesting how different people from different countries perceive left and right. Of course, the perception of what is left and what is right depends on where one is standing.

Here is the Political Compass' take on the U.S. Presidential Primary candidates.

Posted Image

Posted Image

http://www.politicalcompass.org/usprimaries2008

No offence STC but I hade a lot of problems with the Political Compass the time you posted it when you first came to the board. I assume not much has changed since them.
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