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Hillary Clinton; I don't get it
Topic Started: Feb 6 2008, 04:15 PM (1,524 Views)
somerled
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Admiral MacDonald RN
Admiralbill_gomec
Feb 7 2008, 11:31 AM
somerled
Feb 6 2008, 07:52 PM
Imagine how much better the USA would be if some socialistiic policies were enacted by their federal government :
- universial health care
- a proper pharmaceutical benefiits scheme
- a better social safety net
- reduced education costs
- more of the money was spent on infrastructure and less of it went fund corporate wealthfare (the Pentagon and arms indusrtres)

So, what color is the sky in your universe?

:rotfl:

Broken clouds today , so blue and grey.

Yes I know you hate and fear socialism , and to call some in the USA a socialist is a mortal insult , as bad as calling them a commie. You really need to break out of that Cold War Paradyme.

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Minuet
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Fleet Admiral Assistant wRench, Chief Supper Officer
You need to learn how to spell paradigm :lol:
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somerled
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Admiral MacDonald RN
Admiralbill_gomec
Feb 7 2008, 11:34 AM
Little additional tidbits as to why Hillary Clinton is not well-regarded.

The "cattle futures" explanation.

Whitewater

The Health Care Task Force and it's resultant proposal.

Shady dealings not withstanding, she suffers from the same "finger in the wind" disease her husband did.


Has she been convicted of anything ?

Care to point out any USA politician who hasn't had his or her snout in the trough or been involved in "shady dealings" or been bought off by this or that industry ?
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somerled
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Admiral MacDonald RN
Minuet
Feb 7 2008, 12:00 PM
You need to learn how to spell paradigm :lol:

The Spelling Nazies strike again :rolleyes: ..... the i and the y are interchangeable, no I haven't checked my Oxford Dictionary.

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Minuet
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Fleet Admiral Assistant wRench, Chief Supper Officer
somerled
Feb 6 2008, 09:04 PM
Minuet
Feb 7 2008, 12:00 PM
You need to learn how to spell paradigm  :lol:

The Spelling Nazies strike again :rolleyes: ..... the i and the y are interchangeable, no I haven't checked my Oxford Dictionary.

I and Y are not interchangable. And you forgot the silent g.

Spellcheck does wonders. I have one on my google toolbar so I don't have to do my answers on a spreadsheet and copy them over.
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Sgt. Jaggs
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How about a Voyager Movie
Impulse Engine,

I understand your question completely. All of these responses you have gotten from AdBill and 8247 and others are why they don't like her as well as her policies. By the way I think its ok to not like both.

I understand however your deeper point of why the extreme hatred?

I don't get that one fully either. Yes she is polarizing, but, I mean why more so than anyone else in the last 16 years?
She has not been particularly effective. :unsure:
She has not been inspirational. :indifferent:

What has she really done?

I remember Dubya giving her the ass kissing praise when he unveiled her painting at the White House. :ZZZZZ:

IE I can't answer why she is so deeply hated, though I doubt its the estrogen and the Bra. I think for some its all of her and it is quite personal just a Yuck factor in totality.

For me I don't like her because when I look at her and listen to her I am neither inspired nor motivated by her.
Her Husband could look me in the eye and say "I am not here" and I would believe him. Yes I am a Meatball and can be influenced.

But Hill is not Bill. Thats why I like the Slick Willie name so much. :chin:
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Admiralbill_gomec
UberAdmiral
somerled
Feb 6 2008, 09:01 PM
Admiralbill_gomec
Feb 7 2008, 11:34 AM
Little additional tidbits as to why Hillary Clinton is not well-regarded.

The "cattle futures" explanation.

Whitewater

The Health Care Task Force and it's resultant proposal.

Shady dealings not withstanding, she suffers from the same "finger in the wind" disease her husband did.


Has she been convicted of anything ?

Care to point out any USA politician who hasn't had his or her snout in the trough or been involved in "shady dealings" or been bought off by this or that industry ?

I could point out MOST of them who haven't, but you'd never believe it, because you think it's all a conspiracy and that big evil business is out to own our lives.

:rolleyes:

It is kind of difficult to get a prosecution from a friendly attorney general for something that had happened ten years earlier, BUT the evidence exists. By the way, I put those items for you to Google. You know how to Google, don't ya? You put your lips together... and click.
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Admiralbill_gomec
UberAdmiral
somerled
Feb 6 2008, 08:52 PM
Admiralbill_gomec
Feb 7 2008, 11:31 AM
somerled
Feb 6 2008, 07:52 PM
Imagine how much better the USA would be if some socialistiic policies were enacted by their federal government :
- universial health care
- a proper pharmaceutical benefiits scheme
- a better social safety net
- reduced education costs
- more of the money was spent on infrastructure and less of it went fund corporate wealthfare (the Pentagon and arms indusrtres)

So, what color is the sky in your universe?

:rotfl:

Broken clouds today , so blue and grey.

Yes I know you hate and fear socialism , and to call some in the USA a socialist is a mortal insult , as bad as calling them a commie. You really need to break out of that Cold War Paradyme.

Fear it? No. Mock it? Yes. Hate it? Yes. Destined for the ash heap of history except for the ignorance of it's adherents.
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rowskid86
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Suck my Spock
Her voice to it's so Shrill, and that Cackle, honestly what the hell is that. But these are 2 very minor things. more annoying than anything.


Quote:
 
Yes I know you hate and fear socialism , and to call some in the USA a socialist is a mortal insult , as bad as calling them a commie. You really need to break out of that Cold War Paradyme.


The only thing I fear about Socialism is the fact we'd be regulated to death. And the Government will try to control everything.
But yes I hate Socialism, Socialism like Communism should be crushed completely. Small government is what we need. very little government interference. Not more of it. Socialism is an Evil thing. and those who want to spread it are evil as well.
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Franko
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Shower Moderator


An interesting discussion. From over the fence I see a lot of this as Hillary being handicapped a bit because she is part of the Bill Clinton legacy; and people have to know that a President Hillary is going to involve the influence of her husband.

Does America really want these dynasties all the time ? I do respect the fact that Hillary has been tough enough to be politically successful in a world dominated by men; most of them alpha-males......... but again as someone else stated, it is her history and her style that puts me off a bit. I don't really think that would change even if she were running as a Republican. However, just because I prefer Obama over Hillary doesn't mean that I'm sexist about it; and by Canadian standards Hillary isn't really that far left; from my own research I actually consider Obama to be center-right in general about many things.

Hillary acts and campaigns almost with an attitude that she "deserves" to be president; "deserves" the Democratic nomination, and is supported by a huge political machine. In comparison, Obama, who earlier on I figured would be gone from the race by now, is strong in the running and has electrified support by his message and his charisma. In fact, to me, of all the candidates running, Obama and Mitt Romney have lasted longer than I believed they would. And, by the same token now stand as my preferred candidates.

Sorry, but Hillary does have a style and history that turns a lot of people off; and I'm speaking mainly within the Democrat camp and among undecided voters.

As well, I'm noticing a subtle trend in the US media that seem to favour Hillary. Apparantly, Obama isn't black enough, "left" enough, and is starting to gain favour with moderate conservatives. Some leftist blogs I look at are practically infuriated, and are calling him a "closet Reaganite". Wow.

Sorry, John. But Barack at least won't fall asleep during critical NSA briefings.

OK, let me have it :D



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RTW
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Minuet
Feb 6 2008, 05:45 PM
Answering a question with a question is a cheap avoidance of an answer.

In America I think we call it an analogy.

Po-tay-to, po-tah-to.

While you're up, I like my coffee with cream and sugar. ;)
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Intrepid2002
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UNGH!
ImpulseEngine
Feb 6 2008, 04:15 PM
What is it exactly that so many people don't like about Hillary Clinton?

I mean conservatives generally despise her, Sean Hannity has what he calls the "stop Hillary express" going on his show, people generally agree that she is "polarizing", even many Democrats including women Democrats don't like her.  So what it is about her?

I'm personally of the opinion that, if she was a man, she wouldn't have nearly the same animosity directed her way.  So is that it?  Is it that people aren't used to a strong, intelligent, forceful woman in a position of power, or is it something else?

Naturally, conservatives and Republicans aren't going to like much of what she stands for politically, but that's not what I'm talking about.  If it was, we would see the same vilification of other people with similar views.  John Edwards, for example, has reasonably similar views but doesn't get the same kind of animosity directed his way.  So I find it hard to believe it's about her views as much as it's about her personally.

So what is it? What makes her so disliked?  What makes her so polarizing? I just don't get it. :shrug:

ImpulseEngine,

Fear perhaps? Those who hate her most are afraid of her politics and beliefs. Fear of change? Unprecedented apprehension of what a female president can and will do? Reluctance? As in reluctance to accept change ?

Some concerns about Hillary Clinton.... (not necessarily mine)

She touts her "experience". Basically, she had a small role on the Nixon impeachment committee. She was an Atty at the Rose Law firm in Arkansas and her experience there shined the light upon the infamous Whitewater scandal. As First Lady, she failed at the one policy initiative bestowed upon her to nationalize health care. She's a two term senator and a lot of the experience she's advocating would be that of her role as First Lady. Was she really effective in policy decision during her husbands tenure as President? One shining moment might be her work in child advocacy.

She's supposedly admired by women but not by women who came of age during the supposed "sexual revolution". Those who are not pleased with her for standing by her man during the Monica debacle. Those who feel she turned on so called "feminist" principles.

Unfortunately, despite her intelligence and ambition, some see her as arrogant and standoffish. Good jobs came her way only as a direct political consequence of her relationship with Bill Clinton. Would she have gotten this far without him? And that leads to another concern of mine. Can Bill Clinton accept his role as First Gentleman and let Hillary have her moment?

That being said....

I am afraid. I am afraid of any candidate that will take this country too far to the right or too far to the left. What she has going for her is that
she's defining herself against the Bush record. She's no dumb cluck, she's more moderate than some care to think. I like her.

I can unequivocally say the same thing for John McCain, Barack Obama and John Edwards. Center-left, Center-right, I can take.

Let's be realistic here, she going to continue to be vilified by some because she's a woman. One of the side effects of wearing pants.
It's a double edged sword, you're not allowed to cry or get teary eyed because your pants are too tight. She shouldn't expect to be treated with kid gloves and she's not. I know you should never vote for a person solely because of gender but secretly inside of me, as a woman, there a little voice cheering her on and asking her to collectively kick all their rear ends. But don't tell anybody I said that.

I think I'm going to sit on the fence a little bit longer and maybe even wait for the PA primaries to make a decision. Go John McCain!
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Minuet
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Fleet Admiral Assistant wRench, Chief Supper Officer
RTW
Feb 6 2008, 11:17 PM
Minuet
Feb 6 2008, 05:45 PM
Answering a question with a question is a cheap avoidance of an answer.

In America I think we call it an analogy.

Po-tay-to, po-tah-to.

While you're up, I like my coffee with cream and sugar. ;)

No, it's the same in the US as in Canada.

Why are you afraid to answer the question I posed about whether or not it is a common practice for the military to do this for the President.

Should I presume it is because the answer will take away another one of the sillier talking points here?
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somerled
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Admiral MacDonald RN
Minuet
Feb 7 2008, 12:06 PM
somerled
Feb 6 2008, 09:04 PM
Minuet
Feb 7 2008, 12:00 PM
You need to learn how to spell paradigm  :lol:

The Spelling Nazies strike again :rolleyes: ..... the i and the y are interchangeable, no I haven't checked my Oxford Dictionary.

I and Y are not interchangable. And you forgot the silent g.

Spellcheck does wonders. I have one on my google toolbar so I don't have to do my answers on a spreadsheet and copy them over.

You need better things to do your time .... :rolleyes:
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somerled
Member Avatar
Admiral MacDonald RN
Admiralbill_gomec
Feb 7 2008, 12:13 PM
somerled
Feb 6 2008, 08:52 PM
Admiralbill_gomec
Feb 7 2008, 11:31 AM
somerled
Feb 6 2008, 07:52 PM
Imagine how much better the USA would be if some socialistiic policies were enacted by their federal government :
- universial health care
- a proper pharmaceutical benefiits scheme
- a better social safety net
- reduced education costs
- more of the money was spent on infrastructure and less of it went fund corporate wealthfare (the Pentagon and arms indusrtres)

So, what color is the sky in your universe?

:rotfl:

Broken clouds today , so blue and grey.

Yes I know you hate and fear socialism , and to call some in the USA a socialist is a mortal insult , as bad as calling them a commie. You really need to break out of that Cold War Paradyme.

Fear it? No. Mock it? Yes. Hate it? Yes. Destined for the ash heap of history except for the ignorance of it's adherents.

As opposed to ignorant free market capitalists and neocons .... :rolleyes:
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