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Berkeley tells Marines to get out
Topic Started: Feb 1 2008, 03:59 PM (569 Views)
rowskid86
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Suck my Spock
it's honestly true, he make's up his own history, somerled makes up his own history. because I beleive that someone wiht the Educational background he has, that he actually beleive's what he said. or his hatred for the US is that intense, from where he can ignorre histroy, and sources that are aussie one's that depict history differnt than his verrsion.
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captain_proton_au
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A Robot in Disguise

Yes, special mention to those that gave their lives in the Coral sea.

Not that I think Japan would have ever bothered with Australia.

But thanks largely in part to those brave american sailors, we never had to find out


-------------


As to hypoethicals: If the Brits hadnt had to stuff around with Hitler, they might have halted the Japanese advance at Singapore
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RTW
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Vice Admiral
somerled
Feb 10 2008, 01:03 AM
Had the USA not entired WWII , the Germans and Italians would still have been defeated (by the Commonwealth (UK etc) and the Russioans) , Hitler's biggest blunder was attacking the Russians..
Stalins "biggest blunder" was taking advantage of Hitler's focus on the West to expand Russia and threatening Germany's oil supply.

somerled
Feb 10 2008, 01:03 AM
The Japanese supply lines were already stretched by the time they invaded New Guinea (which was part of Australia then , being Australian territory). It is doubtful the Japanese could have successfully invaded and occupied northern mainland Australia (which was even more sparsely populated than now and so they would have found it hard to live off the land up north in continential Australia.
With no other navy impeding their movements or supply lines, I don't see how Australia could have stood up to Japan.
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whitestar
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Captain
Quote:
 
As to hypoethicals: If the Brits hadnt had to stuff around with Hitler, they might have halted the Japanese advance at Singapore
Unlikely Capt, the British defence was structured to defend against a direct attack on Singapore harbour but the Japs came from the North, through what was believed to be impenetrable jungle which needed no defence. The British outnumbered their attackers but the defence was facing in the wrong direction. The only setback the Japs suffered in the campaign was a defeat inflicted by the Aussie contingent of the British forces. They were able to do so because they too fought as did the Japanese, in the Jungle, part of the jungle, not just using the roads and paths. The first defeat the Japanese suffered during WW11. The success of the Aussies could not be sustained or built upon because their flanks were turned when the British fell back and the Aussies too had to relinquish their hard won ground and retire with the main body.
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RTW
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Vice Admiral
^^^ Assuming this is factual because you didn't provide links :rolleyes: (see pm), FASCINATING! WELL DONE!

Posted Image
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somerled
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Admiral MacDonald RN
whitestar
Feb 10 2008, 06:20 PM
Quote:
 
Had the USA not entired WWII , the Germans and Italians would still have been defeated (by the Commonwealth (UK etc) and the Russioans) , Hitler's biggest blunder was attacking the Russians
Somerled, no offence mate but that statement seems to me to be fanciful, please explain how the "Commonwealth" would have mounted an invasion of continental Europe without the resources and manpower of the US?
From my understanding of WW11 the Russians would not have been able to withstand the full onslaught of the German war machine. Germany had to hold at least 10% of it's armed forces in Western Europe to guard against an Allied invasion, that 10% from my reading would have tipped the balance against the Russians and god knows what path history would have taken with a Nazi regime intact in the fifties and sixties

The UK had virtual command of the forces of Canada, Australia, South Africa, India, NZ and a lot of other Commonwealth Nations , plus the forces of the Free French , the Poles , and a lot of other nations who had been overrun by the Germans in europe who had regrouped after evacuation in the UK. A substantial force.

The russians withstood the full onslaught of the nazi war machine (heard of Stalengrad ?).
Plus the Russians had already gone onto the offensive and had already inflicted devastating defeats on the nazies and were outstripping nazi production of battle tanks, aircraft (bombers and fighters) , and artillary , and had huge resources available them that were well beyond german attack range.
Some info : Soviet war against the Nazies.


The Nazies would have been defeated without the USA , it would have just taken a little longer.

I guess the contribution of the Russians to defeating the nazies has been played down in the USA in their revision of the history WWII.

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RTW
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somerled
Feb 10 2008, 03:21 AM
I guess the contribution of the Russians to defeating the nazies has been played down in the USA in their revision of the history WWII.

:rotfl:

:no:
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whitestar
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Captain
Quote:
 
The Malayan campaign, which ended with the Fall of Singapore in February 1942, lasted just 68 days from when the Japanese invaded Malaya on 8 December 1941.
By the time the Japanese encountered Australian forces in mid-January 1942 most of the Malayan Peninsula was in their hands. On 13-14 January, Australians mounted a successful delaying action on the Japanese west of Gemas. Shortly after that, to the south, Australian units came up against the advancing Japanese in the Muar River area. The ensuing Battle of Muar was the last action to significantly halt the Japanese advance before they reached Singapore.
http://www.singapore.embassy.gov.au/sing/media%20rel.html
Best I can find RTW,
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whitestar
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Captain
Quote:
 
(heard of Stalengrad ?).
No! but I've heard of Stalingrad, too late at the moment to fully reply your last post, bed time for me. get back to yer soon
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rowskid86
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Suck my Spock
somerled
Feb 10 2008, 05:21 AM
whitestar
Feb 10 2008, 06:20 PM
Quote:
 
Had the USA not entired WWII , the Germans and Italians would still have been defeated (by the Commonwealth (UK etc) and the Russioans) , Hitler's biggest blunder was attacking the Russians
Somerled, no offence mate but that statement seems to me to be fanciful, please explain how the "Commonwealth" would have mounted an invasion of continental Europe without the resources and manpower of the US?
From my understanding of WW11 the Russians would not have been able to withstand the full onslaught of the German war machine. Germany had to hold at least 10% of it's armed forces in Western Europe to guard against an Allied invasion, that 10% from my reading would have tipped the balance against the Russians and god knows what path history would have taken with a Nazi regime intact in the fifties and sixties

The UK had virtual command of the forces of Canada, Australia, South Africa, India, NZ and a lot of other Commonwealth Nations , plus the forces of the Free French , the Poles , and a lot of other nations who had been overrun by the Germans in europe who had regrouped after evacuation in the UK. A substantial force.

The russians withstood the full onslaught of the nazi war machine (heard of Stalengrad ?).
Plus the Russians had already gone onto the offensive and had already inflicted devastating defeats on the nazies and were outstripping nazi production of battle tanks, aircraft (bombers and fighters) , and artillary , and had huge resources available them that were well beyond german attack range.
Some info : Soviet war against the Nazies.


The Nazies would have been defeated without the USA , it would have just taken a little longer.

I guess the contribution of the Russians to defeating the nazies has been played down in the USA in their revision of the history WWII.

Stalingrad wasn't a turning point for the russians. It was when the Nazi's stopped outside of Moscow, and built a railroad to ship vital war supplies to Kursk. to take the Oil fields. right there he stopped the Momentium and allowed the Russians to have a little more time to get more troops in. that was one major thing that helped the Russians. the Other was Winter.

Ahh yes The UK had vitual command of all those forces. Yet who was the Allied General in Command of ALL I repeat ALL, say it again ALL forces in Europe. 5 Star General Dwight David Eisenhower. I never knew he was British. I was always under the impression he was an American General and Later on a President. Guess our history is wrong. since he was actually a Brit.

What Contribution did Russia have? One guy gets rifle, other guy has 5 rounds. when the one with the rifle is killed the other picks up the rifle. the only thing they had was vast numbers, winter, and Hitler making a few major mistakes. But since Stalin is was of your buddies I'm gonna guess you are going to deny it.


The Nazi's could not have been defeated without us. as I already stated you Choose to Ignore. if we never sent all those war supplies to the UK before we entered the War. the Battle of Britain would have been suscceful for the Nazi's. Operation Sea Lion (The Invasion of england) would have happened. and probably succeeded. PLus as I remember on D-Day. (Operation Overlord) there was 5 beaches. Utah and Ohama where assigned to the Americans, Sword, and Gold where the Brits and the Canadians had Juno. What Beach's did the Aussies take up as the spear heading. an Imaginary 6 beach head?


And once again didn't the Japenese attack the USA at Pearl harbor, because we where considered a major threat? Where was the Sneak attack on Australia? That And I forgot you guys had one massive navy.
And At Coral Sea if we weren't along side you you would have fallen.
The Japanese supply lines where stopped by who's Navy. oh thats right the United States Navy, and the Marines.


But after typing all this out I come to releize whats the point Somerled is going to ignore this entire post because it proves he likes to distort history, Hates America, and acts like a complete Ass when he pulls such crap out and uses it to Debate.
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ds9074
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Admiral
^^^
Well Stalingrad was a very significant battle because it was a crushing defeat for Germany and showed the German war machine could be beaten and beaten convincingly (allbeit at massive cost to Russia).

I think its quite possible the Soviets could have defeated Germany without the USA entering the war - but the influence of the USSR would then very likely have spread right across Europe, not just in the east. The fight would also likely have been longer as the Germans would have had more resources to defend themselves to their east.

I also think its quite possible that the UK would have won the Battle of Britain without the economic help of the US. The problem for Britain would more likely have been not in 1940 but later as the war dragged on and we faced the problem of dwindling supplies and lack of finance.

Where the US contribution was undeniably vital however was in the war against Japan. Russia had more than enough to deal with in the west fighting Germany. British resources were also going to prioritise fighting Germany, protecting Great Britain itself and keeping open key shipping routes to Canada and the USA.
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