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Battlestar Galactica
Topic Started: Jan 31 2008, 02:27 AM (6,414 Views)
Wichita
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The Adminstrator wRench
^^

I wasn't specifically thinking of her falling victim to a lion, but the scene did remind me of the scene at the beginning of "Clan of the Cave Bear' where a young blond girl is wandering around in much the same way - before being attacked by a lion.

The just flying the resources into the sun thing got me as well.

Anybody every try to carry one of those backpacks like the ones they were carrying? I have the minimum to survive three days in a backpack to be grabbed quickly in case of an emergency. It's heavy and far from complete for just three days. They mentioned prepositioning supplies, but shelter was also important and the ships would have provided that.

Had they landed one of the vessels at each new site to be cannibalized by each settlement, it would have made more sense.

I also questioned how the entire fleet so willingly went along with Lee Adama's suggestion. For four years we have seen the most cynical political posturing but suddenly they are all working together?
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Wichita
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Review of the Finale
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Dwayne
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Quote:
 
I also questioned how the entire fleet so willingly went along with Lee Adama's suggestion. For four years we have seen the most cynical political posturing but suddenly they are all working together?
Politically haggling such a decision would have required another episode.


In short, the conclusion of BSG was one of the scenarios I considered for the conclusion, but frankly it was my least favorite of scenarios. I would have much preferred they had found a contemporary Earth versus one from the stone age. As well, I did not like the Ludditic tone taken in the conclusion, but my dislike was tempered by the conversation at the end between the angel's resembling Balter and Caprica about how one pattern will repeat for a time and then maybe, just maybe, evolution causes the pattern to change, and then went to the scenes of our own nascent Cylons, thus holding true to one constant theme in the series ... This has all happened before and will happen again.

That said, I actually love the fact that this conclusion left questions unanswered. Frankly, this series, at its heart, is and was about destiny, divinity and faith. How can you have a series that explores such topics, yet answers all questions? I don't think you can, because it removes the mystery of the nature of God.

So, what happened to Kara and all the other little questions left outstanding? It's a mystery to be answered at a later date or maybe not at all.

One thing I would have loved to have seen was some sort of montage of images that tracked the course of events over the 150,000 years to contemporary times, but obviously RDM intended all that man has today to have been inspired by what was taught to us by the humans from the 12 Colonies and the remaining Cylons. I think we, as the viewer, are supposed to leave to our imagination what those influences were, such as legends of Atlantis... The Pyramids... The 12 tribes of Israel... Our dual polytheist and monotheist nature... Our fascination with the sky and space...

I've loved this journey and I'm saddened to see it end, but I do look forward to the movie The Plan and the new series Caprica.

I'm certain that The Plan ought to answer many questions involving the intentions and goals of Cavil and why the 6 other humanoid Cylon models turned on their creators, the Final Five, and opted to wipe out humans all together.
Edited by Dwayne, Mar 21 2009, 01:39 PM.
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Dwayne
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Wichita... This is from the review you posted...
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The key to ''Daylight'' is realizing that, sometimes, questions don't get answered. If you can swing with that, then what this series finale offers (and doesn't offer) will sit perfectly well.


I think that was perfectly stated.
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Wichita
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Dwayne, I don't think the fact they didn't answer all the questions is what bothered me about it.

We were told Hera was the key. The explanation of why she was the key was not a "holy crap" moment because, in my opinion, they did it poorly and then, to make sure we "got" it, they explained it to death.

On my favorite science fiction books from my youth tells of the intersection of universes. Near the end, one character is telling the other of some of the differences between the two universes and says "In their universe, their president was killed in someplace they call Dallas while ours is playing soccer with his grandchildren in Massachusetts." That was the last sentence of the book.

That one sentence caused me to go back and read the book again from a different perspective.

That one was a question that I would have preferred remain unanswered now that I know what their answer was.

The whole issue of political haggling goes directly to the heart of why BSG was different from Star Trek the Next Generation. BSG haggled - TNG was total aggreement without haggling. The decision sacrificed some of what made BSG, BSG.

As to some of the other unanswered questions ... I frankly expected many questions to remain unanswered because I knew other BSG projects were in process.

However, some of the questions that struck me as unanswered I don't know that the producers themselves considered unanswered. There seemed to be a reliance on "its mystical" as an explanation. (why Apollo "knew" he would never see his father again, for example)

One thing I liked was that they did not get Starbuck and Apollo "together" forever. That I would have thought was inconsistent.



Edited by Wichita, Mar 21 2009, 05:53 PM.
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Swidden
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This series pretty much wrapped up the way I expected it would. I am, overall, satisfied with how it ended. Again I kind of got the sense that many of the themes Moore played up on in DS9 were echoed here; right down to the CO disappearing.

I am still questioning just who and what was/is Kara Thrace.

The fast forward at the very end with scene of contemporary robotic efforts, was this meant to be a bit disconcerting/unsettling? As if humanity is once more stepping foot onto an already well trodden path? Or, given the playful nature of the images, was this meant to convey the idea that maybe humanity will get it right this time with their automatons?

Regarding questions about Cavil and his intentions. His goal all along stemmed from his hatred of humanity and his desire to hunt the human race down to extinction. It was only after losing the previous resurrection hub and the offer in the finale to have resurrection returned to the Cylons that he became willing to negotiate. Given the character's make-up, I don't doubt he would have eventually gone looking for the survivors of the human race yet again. He also clearly had no love for his builders, and presumably he must have known all along who the Final Five were, so it makes a certain sense that he would have been so opposed to the other Cylons seeking them out. He probably would have preferred to eliminate them in the end.
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Dwayne
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Wichita
Mar 21 2009, 05:50 PM
Dwayne, I don't think the fact they didn't answer all the questions is what bothered me about it.

We were told Hera was the key. The explanation of why she was the key was not a "holy crap" moment because, in my opinion, they did it poorly and then, to make sure we "got" it, they explained it to death.

On my favorite science fiction books from my youth tells of the intersection of universes. Near the end, one character is telling the other of some of the differences between the two universes and says "In their universe, their president was killed in someplace they call Dallas while ours is playing soccer with his grandchildren in Massachusetts." That was the last sentence of the book.

That one sentence caused me to go back and read the book again from a different perspective.

That one was a question that I would have preferred remain unanswered now that I know what their answer was.

The whole issue of political haggling goes directly to the heart of why BSG was different from Star Trek the Next Generation. BSG haggled - TNG was total aggreement without haggling. The decision sacrificed some of what made BSG, BSG.

As to some of the other unanswered questions ... I frankly expected many questions to remain unanswered because I knew other BSG projects were in process.

However, some of the questions that struck me as unanswered I don't know that the producers themselves considered unanswered. There seemed to be a reliance on "its mystical" as an explanation. (why Apollo "knew" he would never see his father again, for example)

One thing I liked was that they did not get Starbuck and Apollo "together" forever. That I would have thought was inconsistent.



I understand and appreciate your critique, and I think many will probably agree with you on some level. For me, it was all the symbolism and visions of the Opera House and it turns out to be the bridge of Galactica? Ooookay.

I understand where the writers were going with it, but it still seemed less awe inspiring than I had hoped for.
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Dwayne
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Mar 21 2009, 07:59 PM
This series pretty much wrapped up the way I expected it would. I am, overall, satisfied with how it ended. Again I kind of got the sense that many of the themes Moore played up on in DS9 were echoed here; right down to the CO disappearing.

I am still questioning just who and what was/is Kara Thrace.

The fast forward at the very end with scene of contemporary robotic efforts, was this meant to be a bit disconcerting/unsettling? As if humanity is once more stepping foot onto an already well trodden path? Or, given the playful nature of the images, was this meant to convey the idea that maybe humanity will get it right this time with their automatons?

Regarding questions about Cavil and his intentions. His goal all along stemmed from his hatred of humanity and his desire to hunt the human race down to extinction. It was only after losing the previous resurrection hub and the offer in the finale to have resurrection returned to the Cylons that he became willing to negotiate. Given the character's make-up, I don't doubt he would have eventually gone looking for the survivors of the human race yet again. He also clearly had no love for his builders, and presumably he must have known all along who the Final Five were, so it makes a certain sense that he would have been so opposed to the other Cylons seeking them out. He probably would have preferred to eliminate them in the end.
I like your take on Cavil. In my opinion it's the correct take on it. He's the jealous one and vents his rage on what the Final Five love, and from his point of view it's chiefly, humans and Number 7, "Daniel".
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Wichita
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Dwayne
Mar 21 2009, 08:10 PM
I understand where the writers were going with it, but it still seemed less awe inspiring than I had hoped for.
Actually, that pretty well sums up my opinion of the finale as well.

I read your link to the Wiki on Daniel. I disagree with Moore (that's his name, right?) on that one. What's the harm in letting the fans think that Daniel was Kara's father - whether or not it was intended by the writers? Oddly, it would be "an" explanation for her disappearance even if it later turned out to be incorrect.

Makes me think that they have another explanation planned for a later version of the BSG franchise. Which is good - as flawed a character as Kara Thrace was, I liked her.

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Dwayne
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Wichita
Mar 22 2009, 07:41 AM
Dwayne
Mar 21 2009, 08:10 PM
I understand where the writers were going with it, but it still seemed less awe inspiring than I had hoped for.
Actually, that pretty well sums up my opinion of the finale as well.

I read your link to the Wiki on Daniel. I disagree with Moore (that's his name, right?) on that one. What's the harm in letting the fans think that Daniel was Kara's father - whether or not it was intended by the writers? Oddly, it would be "an" explanation for her disappearance even if it later turned out to be incorrect.

Makes me think that they have another explanation planned for a later version of the BSG franchise. Which is good - as flawed a character as Kara Thrace was, I liked her.

Yes, I certainly understand your desire here for a real explanation as to who is Daniel and what is Kara Thrace. That said, one thing I've not gotten an answer to on Kara Thrace is the whole thing about her being the "Harbinger of Death." Since that was not answered, I believe there is something else planned for her character... Something I've been tossing around in my head is the idea she reappears on our contemporary Earth with all the knowledge of the past... And the only reason for her appearence is as a harbinger of the death of mankind.

Another thing that really keeps bouncing around in my head is the remake of Bionic Woman, which fell to the writers strike and the typical ratings for sci-fi programming. In this remake the actress Katee Sackhoff plays a woman, Sarah Corvus, whose was modified in an experiment with nano-scale devices which are able to repair or replace any biological system that is damaged. Once Sarah Corvus figures this all out, she literally starts ripping and tearing off body parts so they maybe replaced by superior nano-scale machine versions. I think the character stated in one scene that she removed both eyes and both arms,

Because David Eick, the executive producer of BSG, was invovled with Bionic Woman as well, I now wonder if there might be some tie-in between BSG and the reimagined Bionic Woman, and given the warnings about technology run amuck in BSG and the obvious tech run amuck story arch from Bionic Woman that consumed the 10 episodes that aired, I sometime think Sarah Corvus was intended to be a reincarnation of Kara Thrace.
Edited by Dwayne, Mar 22 2009, 04:40 PM.
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Swidden
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Dwayne
Mar 22 2009, 02:15 PM
Because David Eick, the executive producer of BSG, was invovled with Bionic Woman as well, I now wonder if there might be some tie-in between BSG and the reimagined Bionic Woman, and given the warnings about technology run amuck in BSG and the obvious tech run amuck story arch from Bionic Woman that consumed the 10 episodes that aired, I sometime think Sarah Corvus was intended to be a reincarnation of Kara Thrace.
Interesting little thought there... I guess if the late Isaac Asimov could find a way to link his Foundation and Robot novels Eick could find a way to link Bionic Woman and BSG. I tried to watch the Bionic Woman, but it really never worked for me. Too much about the title character's life that did not resonate enough to hold my interest.
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Dwayne
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Swidden
Mar 22 2009, 05:44 PM
Dwayne
Mar 22 2009, 02:15 PM
Because David Eick, the executive producer of BSG, was invovled with Bionic Woman as well, I now wonder if there might be some tie-in between BSG and the reimagined Bionic Woman, and given the warnings about technology run amuck in BSG and the obvious tech run amuck story arch from Bionic Woman that consumed the 10 episodes that aired, I sometime think Sarah Corvus was intended to be a reincarnation of Kara Thrace.
Interesting little thought there... I guess if the late Isaac Asimov could find a way to link his Foundation and Robot novels Eick could find a way to link Bionic Woman and BSG. I tried to watch the Bionic Woman, but it really never worked for me. Too much about the title character's life that did not resonate enough to hold my interest.
I agree, but I understand what they were trying to do. They were trying to give her character more depth. They gave her a set of real life problems that many women face, and then over laid the new identity of double-super-secret-special-agent whatever you wanna call it. The personal life story arch just seemed like it was taking up too much of the story.

As for my interesting little thought, I think directors and producers are always looking at ways to cross-promote their works, and now that I know where RDM was going with the story of BSG, it just seems too coincidental that the Bionic Woman story arch involving Sarah Corvus (In Greek mythology, Corvus was the sacred bird of Apollo. Another BSG connection?), played by Katee Sackhoff, was a cautionary tale about technology run amuck.
Edited by Dwayne, Mar 22 2009, 08:51 PM.
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Hoss
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I have a question. When they went to Kobol, they went into a chamber where they saw the zodiac symbols projected before them and this was a clue, I guess, to Earth. But that Earth, was not this Earth, that was the Earth that was nuke'd a thousand years ago? But this Earth, the one we live on was to be 1,000,000 light years away from all of this? We have a completely different night sky, but the zodiac signs are actually here. ????

And a million light years from here in any direction is inter-galactic space.

And I didn't want to bring this back up, but the Galactica jumped while being embedded in the Cylon ship. Shouldn't that have destroyed the Cylon ship?

I did like what they finally did with Gaius. He finally began acting like a man. Did he know all this time that Ellen was a cylon and one of the final five from when he tested her when she first appeared on the ship? His "6" angle inside his head didn't seem to know.

The Opera House was the Galactica bridge. That certainly never occurred to me. But, it works I guess.

I feel like Lee got kind of screwed by all this. His wife shoots herself in the head. His father flies off in a raptor without much of a goodbye. Thrace just dissappears. And he is just standing there in a field all alone after all of that. I guess that he'll go hang with the others.

We didn't see the diane beers cylon character again. I wonder if she wasn't available. We also didn't see Leoben and he seemed to be important early on in revealing Thrace's secret nature.

So, who played the music that woke the final five (four) up? Was that the new Thrace who appeared soon after in the new viper? It was her song, I guess.

I liked the final scene with Doc Cottle. That was kind of moving.

My favorite character of the series was Saul Tigh. I don't guess we'll be seeing him again.
Edited by Hoss, Mar 23 2009, 09:12 AM.
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Dwayne
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Hoss
Mar 23 2009, 09:06 AM
I have a question. When they went to Kobol, they went into a chamber where they saw the zodiac symbols projected before them and this was a clue, I guess, to Earth. But that Earth, was not this Earth, that was the Earth that was nuke'd a thousand years ago? But this Earth, the one we live on was to be 1,000,000 light years away from all of this? We have a completely different night sky, but the zodiac signs are actually here. ????

And a million light years from here in any direction is inter-galactic space.

And I didn't want to bring this back up, but the Galactica jumped while being embedded in the Cylon ship. Shouldn't that have destroyed the Cylon ship?
I never caught that our Earth was '1,000,000 light years away' from anything really... I thought that comment was an exaggerated parenthetical comment, kind of like, "I'm so hungry, I could eat a horse."

As for Galactica doing an FTL jump from inside the Colony... I was under the impression that the Colony was destroyed, even though it wasn't shown. I reached that conclusion, because there was no concern that the remaining Cylon's on the Colony would come for them on their new Earth.

Those were the only two things in your comments, that I really couldn't entirely agree. The rest is pretty much spot on, particularly the point about Baltar... He was redeemed in my opinion. So was Chief Tyrol, because he could have just given up on Cally like he did the baby, but he didn't. His humanity couldn't allow for it, and so he was redeemed in my mind too.

The biggest surprise to me is Ellen Tigh.
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Hoss
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Yeah, the million light-years away comment could have been an exageration, but a severe exageration from an Admiral and Battlestar Commander. Our galaxy is roughly 100,000 light-years across. The next closest galaxy is about 2,000,000 light-years away. Doesn't really matter, I guess. Megellanic Cloud maybe? That would also seem like a really long jump, and the Galactica wasn't supposed to be able to jump that far, not to mention all the civilian ships.

The Cylon colony was destroyed when the Raptor got hit by a very lucky asteroid which caused the dead pilots hand to hit the giant weapons launch button sending all the nukes directly at the Cylon colony. Act of God is the only thin that makes that work. But is wasn't destroyed by the Galactica's jump, in fact, I didn't see the distortions across its hull like I would expect.

Chief Tyrol just wanting to go live alone seemed to work for his character and all he has been through. It made me kind of sad for him, but it made sense to me. I am speculating that the uninhabited isle off the Norther continent was perhaps the modern day British Isles.

Now the Cylon colony was destroyed, but I wonder if that included all their Base ships. It was mentioned that a Raptor observed a base ship jump in and out. So, were they all there and destroyed in the final battle? Also, there was at one time a large contingent of Cylons on Caprica. Did they all move away and were all the humans killed that remained on Caprica?

Perhaps once the resurection hub was destroyed, they consolidated themselves. I don't know if humans were left alive on Caprica. Perhaps the only humans that were allowed were the Anders group with the embedded Cavel, who presumably knew that Anders was a Cylon.

Another question I have is was Ellen always aware that she was a Cylon, even before her death on New Caprica. It seems to me like she might have been, based on conversations toward the end of season 4. But, I think back to when they first brought her aboard. She didn't seem worried about Baltar's Cylon detector. And the scene at the dinner table when she yells "Boo!" and makes everyone jump was hilarious. Tigh me up, Tigh me down, that was a great name for that episode.

I guess we can trust that the metal Cylons that took off in the base ship won't come back and cause trouble, because 150,000 years later, here we are. Kind of left an opening though.

At the ending they showed cute little toy robots and stuff. IMO, they should have showed some advanced industrial robots. That would have been more dramatic and made the point better as the enslaved Cylons that revolted and started the whole mess. All this has happened before, .....

What the frack am I supposed to do on Friday nights now? Monk is ending, BSG is ending. I guess its going to be another XBOX night.


So say we all.
Edited by Hoss, Mar 23 2009, 01:25 PM.
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