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| Battlestar Galactica | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jan 31 2008, 02:27 AM (6,418 Views) | |
| Dwayne | Feb 27 2009, 01:30 PM Post #211 |
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Profanity deleted by Hoss
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^^^ Aren't you actually thinking about the NBC show "Heroes" instead? Don't get me wrong, I like Heroes, but I've actually found BSG remarkably consistent, it's just that the plot twists throw you, because the elements that make it consistent are usually a season or more old... As an example, in season 1, the Chief never turned in Boomer when he knew for a fact she had something to do with the sabotage of the water storage tanks on Galactica. His actions seemed quite odd at the time, but in retrospect were consistent with someone who was also a Cylon. Or, just how was Ander's able to sheppard all those people left on Caprica through all the Cylon attempts to kill them. His abilities seem consistent with someone who was a Cylon and consequently instinctively knew how the Cylon's would conduct their operations. Try watching all the episodes from season 1 up tp now, and I think you'll begin to appreciate what I'm saying. |
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| Hoss | Feb 27 2009, 02:10 PM Post #212 |
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Don't make me use my bare hands on you.
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I have never watched Heroes. It is on when my kids are awake, so we don't watch it. BSG comes on after the kids are in bed. I don't have a DVR and just don't care enough to get one. "Chief never turned in Boomer when he knew for a fact she had something to do with the sabotage of the water storage tanks on Galactica. His actions seemed quite odd at the time, but in retrospect were consistent with someone who was also a Cylon. " Or someone who had their judgement impaired by love and infatuation. "Or, just how was Ander's able to sheppard all those people left on Caprica through all the Cylon attempts to kill them. His abilities seem consistent with someone who was a Cylon and consequently instinctively knew how the Cylon's would conduct their operations." Or he was being led around and toyed with by one of the Cavils. My comments were more in regards to the jerking around of the audience that is done with established information that it turns out was never true. Like Tyrol's baby. Oh, it turns out that Callie was just skankin' around and got knocked up by some other dude. Kind of hard to swallow. The whole revalation of the constellations on Kobal and the prohecy about this and that all didn't seem to go anywhere. The Cylon disease, I guess that went away. Caprica Six just seems to go from cold-blooded killer who is snapping baby's necks, to caring compasionate Cylon, to ass-kicker, blah blah blah. I'm sure that this all makes since and works together in the minds of the writers. |
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| Dwayne | Feb 27 2009, 06:20 PM Post #213 |
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Profanity deleted by Hoss
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Caprica 6 is an excellent example of the consistencies that really only appear in restrospect... Remember, Caprica 6 is a hero to the Cylon's, but is terribly conflicted about what she did, because she loved Baltar and after the nuclear explosion in which she saved Baltar, she never actually knew if she had in fact saved Baltar. She didn't find out until much later that Baltar survived. And as for her killing that baby in the opening scenes of the mini-series, I never got the feeling there was malicious intent. In fact, in talking to the mom, right before she killed the baby, Caprica 6 made an observation about her surprise at the strength of the neck. It certainly could be argued that her snapping of the neck was totally accidental or even an act of compassion to prevent undue suffering in the forth-ccoming attack. Caprica 6 and Baltar both see vision of of the other. Baltar's imagined 6 pushes Baltar towards the Cylon view of things, and Caprica's imagined Baltar takes Caprica in the opposite direction... Read this on Caprica 6... it's informative: http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Caprica-Six |
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| Hoss | Feb 27 2009, 09:27 PM Post #214 |
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Don't make me use my bare hands on you.
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"It certainly could be argued that her snapping of the neck was totally accidental or even an act of compassion to prevent undue suffering in the forth-ccoming attack." It could not be argued well. I remember that scene because I hated it. She did it experimentally and without passion because she thought of humans as we think of bugs. |
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| Wichita | Feb 28 2009, 06:55 AM Post #215 |
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The Adminstrator wRench
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Sorry, Dwayne. What bugs me about BSG is that it tends to jerk around its audience in the same way that Heroes does. I stopped watching Heroes at the end of the first season for that reason. Do the clues in BSG remain consistent over a season or more? The argument could probably be made. However, you would also have to ignore a dozen other things in the meantime in order to find that consistency. (What Hoss mentioned for example. Chief's actions could be explained by his being a Cylon or simply because he was a man in love. I don't even believe his being a Cylon explains it personally.) You could pick a point in the series and say this and that explains the other thing. But, 6 episodes later, that may no longer be true and you could use the same clues to explain something else. BSG is capable of tight, consistent, exciting episodes - like the two about the coup. BSG should have let them (the writers of those episodes) out of the room they have locked them up in more often. I personally missed how Chief got Boomer out of lockup and I have it on DVR, but the episode was meandering I don't even want to go back through to find the scene. Can somebody explain it to me? It was that bad - and I am not even sure that the person who died at the end of last night's episode actually died. |
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| RTW | Feb 28 2009, 01:18 PM Post #216 |
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Vice Admiral
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It was TV magic. In one scene Chief is whacking another 6, which seems really out of character, and then in the next scene Chief is at lock up, presumably helping the lock up guard restore power, and the guard is complaining that after each outtage he has to go in and personally check on the prisoner. Was Thrace's piano player real or just her mind creating a substitute for her father? So Boomer has been evil all along? Attractive women make the best villians because men are so easily fooled by them. I was surprised when Chief so willingly outted Boomer in the first place. That showed his loyalty to the fleet. Now he helps her escape? I understand him being conflicted but weak-minded? The "I can tell by looking that this is Boomer but I can't tell that she has an evil plan and have no knowledge of her evil past" aspect of the story doesn't sit well with me. Someone died last night? I'm racking my brain but have no recollection of that. Was it when Boomer "jumped" so close to the ship? |
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| Dwayne | Feb 28 2009, 01:33 PM Post #217 |
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Profanity deleted by Hoss
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I would recommend you read this: http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Caprica-Six This site is probably the most authoritative source for all things BSG, and it will fill in details on Caprica 6 you probably hadn't known or had forgotten.
What does jerking the audience around mean exactly? As for Heroes, I watch it, and still love the series. I am willing to suspend disbelief, because with extraordinary abilities, such as the ability to bend space-time like the character Hiro, comes the ability to have all sorts of paradoxical story lines.
Absolutely do... the best example of this is the character of Kara Thrace. In Episode 2.2, Kara's picture of the Eye of Jupiter is plainly seen on the wall, but it's relevence isn't apparent until Episode 3.11, and then explained further in Episode 3.17.
Well, I understand about the Galen-Boomer thing. Was it love or programming... Or maybe a combination of both. But for the sake of a sane discussion, let's deal with what you see as inconsistencies, because I cannot assume what you're talking about. After 4 seasons, it could be any number of things. For any single point you believe there is some sort of inconsistency, there could very well be an explanation.
It wasn't shown how the Chief got her out. If I were to make an assumption, they preplanned in projection and then simply used the cover of darkness to make the switch. Due to the fact that this was a very busy episode, I would not be surprised in the least to find out that there were scenes of this filmed, but had to be dropped due to time constraints. It's happened with previous episodes, such as scenes that show how Adama and Tigh meet.
Who died? If you're thinking the president, I'd say no, but her end is quite near. That has to be for the story to complete. As well, I absolutely don't think it was Athena, Hera or Boomer either, so I got to conclude you think Roslin died in that scene. This particular episode was really a Kara Thrace / Final-Five episode. The music --- the song, All Along the Watchtower --- is key to that,. That music has been used in multiple episodes where Kara Thrace's destiny and the Final-Five story lines coincide, and all this is quite relevent to the overall story line, wherever it may be going. What this episode has revealed is that Kara and Hera have been inspired, by whom or what, we don't know, to write a song that Ander's wrote thousands of years ago on Earth. Even Ellen recognized the music as soon as they heard Kara play it. Whether Kara's father really had anything to do with the song is yet to be known, but I suspect he really did and it's all part of Kara's destiny. What also seems to have been revealed is that Ellen Tigh isn't the evil monster some believe, but a basically good person with some very human flaws. Galen Tyrol has never really stopped loving Boomer, and he is easily manipulated by her. He thought he was saving her life, by helping her escape. He never realized he was helping her kidnap Hera, and that is very apparent by the shock on his face in the scene in the hanger bay when he found out Boomer had her. The cooperation between the rebel cylons and the humans has become even more intertwined, with multiple cylon models participating in CAP briefings. And lastly, I think this episode only re-enforces the idea that Anders is the key to all of it. He wrote the song that seems to tie several plot lines together. It can even be argued that Anders is the genesis for the cylon civil war as a result of the events in Episode 2.18, and that there is no doubt about it based on the events in Episode 3.20. He has always been key to helping humans defend themselves against the cylons, particularly as a last hope type of situation... The remaining humans on Caprica. The resistance on New Caprica. Becoming a fighter pilot for the fleet. Anders is the most significant cylon, in my opinion. All I can say is that fans of this series really ought to buy all the seasons from Amazon.com and watch them again and in order. I did so once, and came away from it with the opinion that the creators and writers of this series are pure geniuses. Edited by Dwayne, Feb 28 2009, 02:10 PM.
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| Wichita | Feb 28 2009, 06:24 PM Post #218 |
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The Adminstrator wRench
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When I wrote "the person who died that I'm not even sure died", Rosalin NEVER CROSSED MY MIND. So, if that is what you are "assuming", you are wrong. Anders wrote the song? See, that's the problem with BSG when it's not good .... I have no idea if that is actually true or not. Or is it just another "important" clue that will get lost? |
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| Dwayne | Mar 1 2009, 06:02 AM Post #219 |
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Profanity deleted by Hoss
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I'm not assuming... I'm deducing. So, who are you talking about? Edited by Dwayne, Mar 1 2009, 06:02 AM.
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| Wichita | Mar 1 2009, 08:55 AM Post #220 |
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The Adminstrator wRench
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Dwayne, Did you watch the episode? Because, if you are "deducing" that I mean Rosalin from what I said, I have to assume that you didn't watch the episode. However, if you drop the "Rosalin" tangent, then I think we are in agreement. You just simply stated your opinion without explaining why you came to the conclusion that you did, however. |
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| Dwayne | Mar 1 2009, 10:22 AM Post #221 |
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Profanity deleted by Hoss
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Wichita, I did watch the episode. Now again, who is "the person who died that I'm not even sure died"? Ah forget it... I don't need any underhanded insults. I'll just go on the premise you were mistaken and no one died. Edited by Dwayne, Mar 1 2009, 10:27 AM.
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| fireh8er | Mar 1 2009, 11:24 AM Post #222 |
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I'm Captain Kirk!
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Moderator Comment Come on you guys. We are talking about a television show. Don't take it so personal. End of Moderator Comment |
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| Wichita | Mar 1 2009, 01:16 PM Post #223 |
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The Adminstrator wRench
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Dwayne, I want to apologize. Given your statements about the show going back multiple seasons to bring together various clues, I thought what I said would have been absolutely clear to you. So I thought you were kidding me because I had said that the show liked to jerk the audience around. Had I understood that your question was a serious one, I would have answered it immediately. The episode gave the impression that Hera died - both from the ambiguity of the scene and from the comments made following it and in the previews. I was simply was saying that I don't believe it. Why did I think it should be so clear? Because, virtually since she was first conceived, the show has returned back to the theme that she is the key to something. The other characters you named are disposable in comparision. If they had suddenly killed her, it would have been the second major storyline in just a few episodes that they simply wrote out. (Settling on Earth being the other one.) If they have any hope of wrapping up the story - which I get the impression that you think they will do and which I strongly doubt - then they can't simply kill her off as well. Now, I just went back and watched the show from when Chief got Boomer released to the end. I'm pretty sure SOMEONE died in that explosion. As to whether I was mistaken or not in believing the show wanted me to think Hera died .... I am sorry, however, to not catching on to what you really were saying quicker. |
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| Hoss | Mar 1 2009, 02:37 PM Post #224 |
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Don't make me use my bare hands on you.
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What bugged me about the raptor causing all the damage when it engaged its FTL, is that I remember in Season 3 when everyone was escaping the doomed Pegasus on Raptors. The Raptor engaged FTLs right at the end of the runway and there was not this ripple of damage across the deck or the Pegasus. It also bugs me that Tyrol was quick to turn Boomer in and then just as quick to kill(?) another cylon to get her out. My only guess is that he found out that the other cylons were going to execute her and this pushed him over the edge. How did Boomer find the fleet to begin with? Presumable Cavil and the gang have been searching for them for quite a while, but Boomer and Ellen manage to find them relatively quickly. Also, Galactica has been through 3 and half seasons of hell, getting hit with everything and remaining standing. Now all the sudden, it's falling apart. And it is all of the sudden. Anyway, now with the final five together at last, I wonder if they'll rebuild regeneration ships and this will give them an advantage over the other Cylons. We still have several characters who are able to have visions with the known Cylons. I hope that they explain this. Rosalyn, Starbuck, Baltar. Also, I don't think that we have heard the last of Cain. There seems to be a parallel between Hera and Starbuck going. I wonder if they will end up tied together somehow. Perhaps Starbuck is a secret Cylon/Human baby that nobody knew of except her father who is gone. Perhaps her father was the thirteenth? Oh well, my random thoughts. |
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| Dwayne | Mar 1 2009, 05:21 PM Post #225 |
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Profanity deleted by Hoss
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Well, there are so few episodes left... I feel we'll all be pleasantly surprised... At least I hope so. |
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