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| Compilation of prewar false statements | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jan 23 2008, 03:11 PM (2,067 Views) | |
| RTW | Jan 24 2008, 01:05 PM Post #76 |
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Vice Admiral
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I remember when he was your groupie. "The student has become the master."
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| Minuet | Jan 24 2008, 01:07 PM Post #77 |
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Fleet Admiral Assistant wRench, Chief Supper Officer
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I've quoted the relevant part of your post. Thanks for the contribution. |
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| RTW | Jan 24 2008, 01:07 PM Post #78 |
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Vice Admiral
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I'm assuming you're NOT stupid and have a reasonable ability to say what you mean the first time. My apologies if that assumption is incorrect.
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| ImpulseEngine | Jan 24 2008, 01:08 PM Post #79 |
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Admiral
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That discussion was about FDR, not Bush... Again, we were talking about FDR. When all else fails, if you don't have an academic argument, apply labels and hope they stick. That's just sad! (Edited to fix an error in the quote appearance.) |
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| ImpulseEngine | Jan 24 2008, 01:10 PM Post #80 |
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Admiral
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I have the information about Bush, just not about all the people you quoted. Geez, some of this should be obvious RTW. Haven't you been paying attention? |
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| ImpulseEngine | Jan 24 2008, 01:10 PM Post #81 |
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Admiral
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| ImpulseEngine | Jan 24 2008, 01:11 PM Post #82 |
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Admiral
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Just as I thought... |
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| RTW | Jan 24 2008, 01:14 PM Post #83 |
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Vice Admiral
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It's not a label. It's an affliction. Your denial of BDR is as devoid of substance as your denail of any congressional oversight/input.
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| ImpulseEngine | Jan 24 2008, 01:17 PM Post #84 |
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Admiral
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Still waiting for that first real academic answer...
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| Dandandat | Jan 24 2008, 01:20 PM Post #85 |
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Time to put something here
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What convinced FDR? Familiarity with the UK Power Oil Trade A genuine feeling that it was the right thing to do To save off aggression before it came to the US With out being a mind reader and the ability to raise the dead I couldn’t know for sure what convinced FDR. Why does the public generally agree now. Because we won and it’s far in the past. Because the victors get to write the history books. What did the US win in WWII our friend’s safety back? Is that worth wining? Did the US win dominance as a supper power through first dibs on natural resources? Is that worth winning? Did the US win our freedom, was that even at stake? Did the US win pride in knowing that they helped to stop a ruthless killer?
Surely Presidents are talented in creating persuasive arguments. But sometimes we call them dishonesty when they become to persuasive. How many times did the allied forced get lucky? and we call them heroes.
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| RTW | Jan 24 2008, 01:29 PM Post #86 |
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Vice Admiral
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So true. Pearl Harbor, Midway, D-Day, etc, etc, etc. Had anyone taken the initiative to wake Hitler, or if Rommel was in charge, or took initiative, D-Day may have been a deadly failure. |
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| ImpulseEngine | Jan 24 2008, 01:31 PM Post #87 |
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Admiral
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Those are all things that could have been used in the persuasive argument to the general public. I disagree that the only reason people agree now is because we won. That would mean that the only reason people didn't want to go to war back then was fear of losing. You were more correct earlier when you said something about it not being our war. FDR needed to convince the public that it was our war because our interests were also at stake. Persuasive arguments are persuasive arguments. Dishonest arguments are dishonest arguments. And persuasive dishonest arguments are persuasive dishonest arguments just as persuasive honest arguments are persuasive honest arguments. Please don't mix the categories as though they are the same. Maybe it was all skill and no luck. I don't really know. But even with luck that's apples and oranges anyway. Even if they say Bush got lucky because Iraq stabilized, that doesn't mean they won't also say that he handled the whole matter quite poorly and even dishonestly before he got lucky. |
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| Dandandat | Jan 24 2008, 01:45 PM Post #88 |
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Time to put something here
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It could have been - but it wouldn't have worked.
The people alive today aren’t the people who where convinced back then. The people to day aren’t critical of the war because it was a war that was won. The people back then did want to go to war because they felt it was not their war. In order to "convince" them FDR brought the war to them making it their war.
You asked why a president couldnt be more persuasive, you did not ask for them to do it honestly. Had they done it honestly, in the case of FDR, he would have been much less persuasive.
The alied forces saw quite a bit of luck during the war, something where handled poorly, many things where handled dishonestly and today they are heroes. |
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| RTW | Jan 24 2008, 02:02 PM Post #89 |
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Vice Admiral
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True again. It's not wars, soldiers, tactics, methods that are different/more evil. It's the second guessing at home that is different and devisive. One example is people celebrating Jesse MacBeth without checking out his story. |
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| Minuet | Jan 24 2008, 03:03 PM Post #90 |
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Fleet Admiral Assistant wRench, Chief Supper Officer
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He's been a member for close to two years and hasn't provided one yet. I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you
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