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Muslim man in Dallas kills daughters; for acting like Americans
Topic Started: Jan 4 2008, 11:56 AM (2,526 Views)
Admiralbill_gomec
UberAdmiral
somerled
Jan 7 2008, 10:31 PM
8247
Jan 8 2008, 05:11 AM
STC
Jan 7 2008, 01:44 PM
RTW
Jan 7 2008, 06:17 PM
Why are so scared to apply the principles of Occam's Razor when talking about this?  Sure, it would be wrong for a jury to do so, but we're not on the jury.  Why is this man getting so much benefit of the doubt where others haven't?

Occam's Razor basically says that the simplest, most obvious explanation is usually the correct one. Sounds nice but that doesn't always work in practice.

I don't think people are 'scared' to apply Occam's razor. To be honest, just by my own judgement, this does sound like its probably an honour killing. Though we shouldn't rule out other possibilities - IE is quite right to remind us of innocent until proven guilty.

What interests me more is why people feel the need to post these stories? We all know about honour killings. We all think they are horrific. We all think that killing is horrific - period (someone please correct me if I've made an incorrect assumption about you :) ).

Why do I keep posting these stories?

Because at least once a month, I hear someone saying that Islam is a religion of peace, and how dare we generalize.

But, what I don't hear is Muslims condemning these actions, or the actions of terrorists.

How many times do we hear of fathers who are christian murdering their wives and children ?

Fathers killing their children is not specifically a crime that only muslims do. Not so long ago there was story here about a man who drove his car (containing his children aged between 2 and 9) into a lake or river , downing them.

Just because this a muslim family , it's a big story to some . :rolleyes:

I've never heard of a "Christian" father performing a so-called honor killing. Ever. (The word "Christian" in quotes so as to include any Christian faith, not, as Somerled implies, that it is a fundamentalist Christian.)

EDIT: I could not let this claim just slide by without commenting on it.
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Minuet
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^^^ Have you read the entire thread yet - I had a link that refered to a straight out honour murder that happened in Palestine when a Christian didn't want his daughter marrying a Muslim.

It can happen anywhere and from any background. I am sure that if I looked hard enough I could find an example of my own background. It still doesn't mean that any of those religions actually sanctions the behaviour.

Edit - I should add that in this circumstance I do not see Somerled refering to fundamentalist Christians at all. He is refering to any parent who has killed thier child who happens to come from a Christian background of any kind.
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Admiralbill_gomec
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Minuet
Jan 8 2008, 03:06 PM
^^^ Have you read the entire thread yet - I had a link that refered to a straight out honour murder that happened in Palestine when a Christian didn't want his daughter marrying a Muslim.

It can happen anywhere and from any background. I am sure that if I looked hard enough I could find an example of my own background. It still doesn't mean that any of those religions actually sanctions the behaviour.

Edit - I should add that in this circumstance I do not see Somerled refering to fundamentalist Christians at all. He is refering to any parent who has killed thier child who happens to come from a Christian background of any kind.

Actually, I just read it now.

That is a first for me. I've never read of a Christian doing this anywhere until now. First time ever. As for Somerled, he did make the unchallenged claim of "How many times do we hear of fathers who are christian murdering their wives and children ?" Once again, I've never heard of this. I'd like a link to a news source, Somerled (and don't use Minuet's).

"Fathers who are Christian" is what he said. True, that could be taken two ways. I read it channeling his usual comments about Christians, which I admit are my bias.

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Minuet
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I just found another article that makes some very good points. Once again it refers to the case that happened here in Toronto. I haven't got a clue why there is less to be found about the case in Texas.

http://www.newislamicdirections.com/nid/notes/

Quote:
 
Islam and Honor Killings (Revised)

By Imam Zaid on 13 December 2007

For that reason, we ordained for the Children of Israel that whoever kills a soul for other than murder or spreading corruption in the land, it is as if he has killed the whole of humanity… Qur’an 5:35

One of the gravest charges levied against Islam, in terms of its alleged antipathy towards women, is the claim that it encourages a phenomenon known as honor killings. This un-Islamic practice consists of the murder of female family members who are seen as dishonoring their families through real or perceived acts of indiscretion, such as premarital sexual relations or unapproved dating. This charge has been intensified recently due to the tragic murder of a Pakistani Canadian teenage girl, Aqsa Parvez.

The practice of honor killings has absolutely no sanction in the Qur’an, the Prophetic practice, or in the evolved systems of Islamic law. In the case of fornication or adultery, the only way a charge can be levied against an individual, male or female, is through confession, which is discouraged, or by four people actually witnessing the male organ penetrating the female. Even if four people witnessed a naked man engaged with a naked woman, but could not actually testify that they witnessed penetration, their testimony would be rejected.

In a somewhat related issue, it should be noted that in three of the four Sunni schools of law, as is the case with all of the major Shiite schools, pregnancy is not a proof of fornication, as the possibility of rape exists in such a case. Therefore, if a single woman were to become pregnant, according to the overwhelming majority of Islamic jurists, there is no basis for punishing her. In the few well-publicized instances where a pregnant woman has been threatened with death, the minority opinion of the Maliki School of law was unjustly evoked, as occurred in Nigeria, or criminal malfeasance occurred as is the case in Pakistan. 

In the case of dating, there is no Islamically-mandated punishment for a male or a female seeing a member of the opposite sex against the wishes of their families. Such situations should be handled with counseling, compassion and a healthy dose of common sense. Muslim immigrants who have migrated to the West should realize that they have placed their children in an environment where there is a tremendous amount of anti-Islamic peer pressure. This is especially true if they have placed their children, as was the case of the young lady who was recently murdered in Canada, in public schools. Children who succumb to that pressure should not be seen as “bad” kids, for by the standards of the society that has shaped them, no matter how strong their home environment is, they are normal.  To kill a female guilty of an offense such as dating or dressing like her peers under such circumstances is nothing short of cold-blooded murder, and no Islamic authority can argue otherwise.

The overwhelming majority of Muslim societies are free from the practice of honor killing, although it does endure in some parts of the Middle East and South Asia. According to statistics released by the United Nations in 2000 there are approximately 5,000 deaths annually from “honor” killings. Even if one killing occurred due to such barbarity, it would be one too many, as the Qur’an emphasizes.

However, to use the existence of such killings to smear Islam shows the desperation and misplaced priorities of many of those levying such attacks. Most of those deaths are the pathetic acts of sick individuals, who are far removed from the letter, as we have shown above, and the spirit of Islam. An example of such an individual is Muhammad Riaz, a British Muslim of South Asian descent who died as a result of a fire he set to burn to death his wife and four daughters, allegedly because his wife resisted his attempt to arrange marriages for his daughters. His wife and daughters did perish in that fire. To present Riaz, whose daughters had neither fornicated nor dated, as anything other than a sick individual is a sad attempt to defame Islam.

To attack Islam from this angle is a case of misplaced priorities because it can distract attention from far graver abuses of women that demand immediate redress. For example, the State Department estimates that approximately 800,000 women and girls are trafficked as sexual slaves annually. The overwhelming majority of these females are taken from and sent to nominally Christian countries.

Over the last five years well over one thousand women have been kidnapped and then gruesomely murdered in Guatemala. Their bodies usually turn up after a few days, mutilated and in some instances with messages such as “death to bitches” written on them. To date only three men have been incarcerated in connection with those attacks. Would it be proper to thereby conclude that the “Christians” of Guatemala, an overwhelmingly Christian nation, have no regard for the suffering of their women? Of course it would not.

At the end of the day, attacks such as the one that resulted in the death of Aqsa Parvez are acts of domestic violence resulting from rage that emanates from a total neglect of Islamic teachings. Ms. Parvez lost her life due to such violence and perhaps there are a few other instances where Muslims women in Canada or here in the United States, have been similarly victimized. However, these instances should be kept in perspective. In the United States there are approximately 1,200 women killed every year by their husbands or intimate partners. There are other “Christian” nations where murders of this type are even higher.

The United States, Guatemala, and other countries we could mention where similar abuses occur are Christian nations. However, it would be disingenuous to use such statistics as an indictment against Christianity. These issues are an affront to humanity and require our collective attention. Until we all view the problem this way, we are in jeopardizing the health and integrity of our society.

Saying this is not to minimize the gravity of so-called honor killings to the extent that they do occur in Muslim societies. As Muslims, we are commanded to be committed to justice. That commitment entails that as a community we oppose in the strongest terms “honor” killings and take immediate action to end such a practice in our communities.

Practical steps include the following:

1. Emphasize that such killings have no sanction in the Qur’an, the Prophetic practice, or in Islamic law.
2. Declare anyone guilty of involvement in honor killings to be a cold-blooded murderer.
3. Encourage judicial authorities to enact the harshest penalties possible for anyone accused of involvement in such killings.
4. Educate our Muslim communities, especially in the West, about the un-Islamic nature of honor killings, and the pressures, nuances, challenges and complications facing young Muslims, male and female in the West.
5. Work to eliminate the double standards, and to expose the hypocrisy that exist in our communities, generally, concerning attitudes and standards relating to the indiscretions of males as opposed to females.

In conclusion, Islam honors the female, and values femininity. It is up to every Muslim to translate teachings in that regard into a beautiful reality that helps to elevate the status of women in all societies. Honor killings, domestic violence in general, murders of the type terrorizing women in Guatemala, female sexual slavery and trafficking, pornography, especially its more violent manifestations, are all crimes against humanity that we should oppose in the strongest terms and work strenuously to eliminate. If our women are not safe, physically, emotionally, spiritually, or psychologically we are all at risk, for without women men are incomplete, and without men women are incomplete. Our Prophet, peace and blessings of God upon him alluded to this complementariness when he said, peace upon him, “Women are the complimenting halves of men.” Let us all work harder to make our societies whole


Edit - the whole subject of violence against women is one resonateing with me right now. Another death that occured recently in Toronto was a young lady who was murdered by her common law husband over Christmas. He murdered her and her 14 year old brother as well as attacking another brother of hers who survived. This young woman worked at the same Wal-Mart I am currently working at - so this story was very close to home.

She was abused by her boyfriend and was trying to leave him. When stories are in the paper about what happened the focus in on the fact that she was abused. There is no mention of the religion of the people involved - yet the murder happened while they were celebrating Christmas, so the religion of the people involved was definitely "Christian" Why is the religion of the participants unimportant when the abuse is perpetrated by a Christian but it becomes super important when the perp is Muslim? The issue here and the focus should simply be on the abuse. Not the religion.
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Admiralbill_gomec
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Maybe, but the Japanese celebrate Christmas in a big way, and they are certainly NOT Christians.
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Minuet
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Did I mention that the girl worked at the same place I do? I know that she was not Japanese. She was definitely Christian and no one said anything about her boyfriend being anything else but.

But you go on living in your rose coloured world where those who were raised Christian never abuse women or children. The Priests who sexually abused children weren't Christian - they were anything but [/sarcasm]

Geeze - closed eyes and attitudes are exactly why abuse persists in our supposedly advanced society. :(
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ImpulseEngine
Admiral
Minuet
Jan 8 2008, 12:01 PM
ImpulseEngine
Jan 8 2008, 11:35 AM
8247
Jan 7 2008, 02:11 PM
STC
Jan 7 2008, 01:44 PM
RTW
Jan 7 2008, 06:17 PM
Why are so scared to apply the principles of Occam's Razor when talking about this?  Sure, it would be wrong for a jury to do so, but we're not on the jury.  Why is this man getting so much benefit of the doubt where others haven't?

Occam's Razor basically says that the simplest, most obvious explanation is usually the correct one. Sounds nice but that doesn't always work in practice.

I don't think people are 'scared' to apply Occam's razor. To be honest, just by my own judgement, this does sound like its probably an honour killing. Though we shouldn't rule out other possibilities - IE is quite right to remind us of innocent until proven guilty.

What interests me more is why people feel the need to post these stories? We all know about honour killings. We all think they are horrific. We all think that killing is horrific - period (someone please correct me if I've made an incorrect assumption about you :) ).

Why do I keep posting these stories?

Because at least once a month, I hear someone saying that Islam is a religion of peace, and how dare we generalize.

But, what I don't hear is Muslims condemning these actions, or the actions of terrorists.

One problem is that you are assuming this is a "Muslim" or "Islamic" matter. From your original article:
Quote:
 
police were looking into whether Mr. Said was upset with the dating activities and Western ways of the two teens.
It's far from conclusive. It's just a possibility under consideration. Why should Muslim's around the world stand up and condemn an action that 1) hasn't even been proven to be this father murdering his daughters and 2) even if it is that case, hasn't been proven to have anything to do with the religion of Islam or being a Muslim? Maybe he just murdered them out of mental illness or some other non-religion related reason.

Impulseengine - I think you are missing the point to a certain extent as well.

The point is not whether or not it is true that Mr. Said was upset about his children's western lifestyle. Even if he was, and I am leaning towards that very strong possibility, then still the entire Muslim community is NOT to blame. He is still only one man who is unable to throw off the shackles of a CULTURE not a religion.

The Muslim community is not to blame for this. Muslims do not kill thier children more often then parents in other communities. You see stories in the paper every day about parents killing thier children. It's sad but true. Mothers with depression are actually the largest segment of the population that engages in this sad sad act. I, as a mother, am not blamed for the act of another mother. Why should Muslims be blamed when these things occur? He was a sick man mentally and unable to adapt himself. That is not the fault of the Muslim community at large.

Thanks, but no I didn't miss that.

The order of necessary facts resulting in condemnation by the Muslim community would be:
1) The father is guilty of the murders
2) He did this because he was upset with their engaging in American lifestyle activities
3) That was upsetting to him because the Islamic religion specifically states that the various activities that the daughters were engaging in are against the religion.
4) Therefore, the father claims he murdered the daughters for religious reasons.

The Muslim community would then be smart (albeit not obligated) to point out that Islam does not consider those murders acts of religion.

My point was that we haven't even gotten past 1 and 2 so how can we move on to 3 and 4, let alone a condemnation by the Muslim community.
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Admiralbill_gomec
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Minuet
Jan 8 2008, 04:36 PM
Did I mention that the girl worked at the same place I do? I know that she was not Japanese. She was definitely Christian and no one said anything about her boyfriend being anything else but.

But you go on living in your rose coloured world where those who were raised Christian never abuse women or children. The Priests who sexually abused children weren't Christian - they were anything but [/sarcasm]

Geeze - closed eyes and attitudes are exactly why abuse persists in our supposedly advanced society. :(

I never said that, but I did say that I have never heard of Christian men commiting "honor killings." It sounds like you are moving the goalposts, Min.

I know a lot of athiests who "celebrate Christmas." That is, the gift-giving aspect of it. I believe you need to clarify what you mean by "celebrating Christmas" or leave said goalposts be.

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somerled
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Minuet
Jan 9 2008, 02:53 AM
somerled
Jan 8 2008, 11:24 AM
Minuet
Jan 9 2008, 01:09 AM
Admiralbill_gomec
Jan 8 2008, 09:30 AM
Dr. Noah
Jan 8 2008, 09:17 AM
Even if the BBC isn't offered in your area, you can always listen to them online.  Articles from the BBC are best because not only do they actually report on world events in every part of the world but they have previous related stories linked to each article so that you can get the whole story instead of thirty second soundbytes.  Just imagine.

So do any other number of media outlets.

I want to add that the BBC is not always the best. They have thier own biases.

AB is right in suggesting that there are many news sources one can get the full picture from. The BBC can be a part of that - but to suggest it provides a complete and accurate picture on it's own is wrong.

The My BBC's 24HR WORLD NEWS SERVICE does not edit or control in anyway the segments of news from other countries that broadcast as part of the service.

Just in case you missed , the link is provided , so you have no excuse and can access it if you want to.

I don't understand your point Somerled. This is still all BBC - they are not broadcasting the POV of other networks and stations.

I said that they were PART of a balanced picture. Just not an entire balanced picture. I've discussed my feelings about certain biases in the BBC previously and don't need to go into it again here. Suffice it to say that the BBC is not the be all and the end all of news coverage.

Actually , they are , you would know that if you listened to the non-british non-BBC segments , where BBC 24HR WORLD NEWS SERVICE picks up other networks in one or two hour blocks.

Hard to get more balanced and varied than that.

Also SBS (TV) here in Australia does something similar (thought some of the news segments are in foreign languages so not useful to me).

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somerled
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Admiralbill_gomec
Jan 9 2008, 06:02 AM
somerled
Jan 7 2008, 10:31 PM
8247
Jan 8 2008, 05:11 AM
STC
Jan 7 2008, 01:44 PM
RTW
Jan 7 2008, 06:17 PM
Why are so scared to apply the principles of Occam's Razor when talking about this?  Sure, it would be wrong for a jury to do so, but we're not on the jury.  Why is this man getting so much benefit of the doubt where others haven't?

Occam's Razor basically says that the simplest, most obvious explanation is usually the correct one. Sounds nice but that doesn't always work in practice.

I don't think people are 'scared' to apply Occam's razor. To be honest, just by my own judgement, this does sound like its probably an honour killing. Though we shouldn't rule out other possibilities - IE is quite right to remind us of innocent until proven guilty.

What interests me more is why people feel the need to post these stories? We all know about honour killings. We all think they are horrific. We all think that killing is horrific - period (someone please correct me if I've made an incorrect assumption about you :) ).

Why do I keep posting these stories?

Because at least once a month, I hear someone saying that Islam is a religion of peace, and how dare we generalize.

But, what I don't hear is Muslims condemning these actions, or the actions of terrorists.

How many times do we hear of fathers who are christian murdering their wives and children ?

Fathers killing their children is not specifically a crime that only muslims do. Not so long ago there was story here about a man who drove his car (containing his children aged between 2 and 9) into a lake or river , downing them.

Just because this a muslim family , it's a big story to some . :rolleyes:

I've never heard of a "Christian" father performing a so-called honor killing. Ever. (The word "Christian" in quotes so as to include any Christian faith, not, as Somerled implies, that it is a fundamentalist Christian.)

EDIT: I could not let this claim just slide by without commenting on it.

FYI : and I will highlite the appropriate paragraph : Example
Quote:
 
Commander Andy Baker added: "Violence in the name of culture will not be tolerated. Murder in the name of honour will be punished by the severest penalties available in law."

Scotland Yard believe there were 12 'honour killings' in the UK last year (that would be 2001) and said they were not restricted to Muslims, but also occurred in Sikh and Christian families.


This took less than a minute to find.

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RTW
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somerled
Jan 8 2008, 05:46 PM
This took less than a minute to find.

Glad to see you COULD be bothered. ;)
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Minuet
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Admiralbill_gomec
Jan 8 2008, 06:59 PM
Minuet
Jan 8 2008, 04:36 PM
Did I mention that the girl worked at the same place I do? I know that she was not Japanese. She was definitely Christian and no one said anything about her boyfriend being anything else but.

But you go on living in your rose coloured world where those who were raised Christian never abuse women or children. The Priests who sexually abused children weren't Christian - they were anything but [/sarcasm]

Geeze - closed eyes and attitudes are exactly why abuse persists in our supposedly advanced society.  :(

I never said that, but I did say that I have never heard of Christian men commiting "honor killings." It sounds like you are moving the goalposts, Min.

I know a lot of athiests who "celebrate Christmas." That is, the gift-giving aspect of it. I believe you need to clarify what you mean by "celebrating Christmas" or leave said goalposts be.

Actually I didn't move the goalposts. You did. First you did specifically say honour killings but later you said the following

Quote:
 
Actually, I just read it now.

That is a first for me. I've never read of a Christian doing this anywhere until now. First time ever. As for Somerled, he did make the unchallenged claim of "How many times do we hear of fathers who are christian murdering their wives and children ?" Once again, I've never heard of this. I'd like a link to a news source, Somerled (and don't use Minuet's).

"Fathers who are Christian" is what he said. True, that could be taken two ways. I read it channeling his usual comments about Christians, which I admit are my bias.


You clearly claimed you never heard of a Christian murdering thier wives or children. In this paragraph you did not add "in an honour killing" I think this is a ridiculous claim. And I proved it by showing a case that I personally knew about where a man killed his wife and her brother. You will just have to take my word for it that the husband was not Muslim or Jewish or anything else. He was from a Christian background. The crime was just as horrific as the honour murders. Who cares if the guy claims he was dishonoured by the person's behaviour or if the murder was done to keep a wife from leaving. In both cases the bottom line is that the murders were about abuse and control. Not religion. I provided multiple sources that show that despite what the individuals involved may claim there is no justification in the Koran and the Muslim religion does not condone these acts.
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Minuet
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somerled
Jan 8 2008, 07:38 PM
Minuet
Jan 9 2008, 02:53 AM
somerled
Jan 8 2008, 11:24 AM
Minuet
Jan 9 2008, 01:09 AM
Admiralbill_gomec
Jan 8 2008, 09:30 AM
Dr. Noah
Jan 8 2008, 09:17 AM
Even if the BBC isn't offered in your area, you can always listen to them online.  Articles from the BBC are best because not only do they actually report on world events in every part of the world but they have previous related stories linked to each article so that you can get the whole story instead of thirty second soundbytes.  Just imagine.

So do any other number of media outlets.

I want to add that the BBC is not always the best. They have thier own biases.

AB is right in suggesting that there are many news sources one can get the full picture from. The BBC can be a part of that - but to suggest it provides a complete and accurate picture on it's own is wrong.

The My BBC's 24HR WORLD NEWS SERVICE does not edit or control in anyway the segments of news from other countries that broadcast as part of the service.

Just in case you missed , the link is provided , so you have no excuse and can access it if you want to.

I don't understand your point Somerled. This is still all BBC - they are not broadcasting the POV of other networks and stations.

I said that they were PART of a balanced picture. Just not an entire balanced picture. I've discussed my feelings about certain biases in the BBC previously and don't need to go into it again here. Suffice it to say that the BBC is not the be all and the end all of news coverage.

Actually , they are , you would know that if you listened to the non-british non-BBC segments , where BBC 24HR WORLD NEWS SERVICE picks up other networks in one or two hour blocks.

Hard to get more balanced and varied than that.

Also SBS (TV) here in Australia does something similar (thought some of the news segments are in foreign languages so not useful to me).

And you really believe that they don't screen the content before they broadcast it? :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

I had no idea you were so naive :loling:
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Franko
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Shower Moderator


I think a bit of the problem with this incident is that we are all trying to assume primary motivation here on the part of the perpetrator.

It's true we've had a few problems in my neck of the woods with some of our Sikh and Hindu immigrants (we have a lot of them out here in the "valley") and there are cultural conditions that I suppose contribute to this. However, most of them have adjusted well. On the other hand, we have had a few "domestic suicide" situations where the immigrants were from the Orient.

I still see these tragic situations as having more of a cultural basis as opposed to a religious one. Even "honour killings" are usually a cultural phenomenon. Most practitioners of Christianity, Islam, Hinduism and so on would be appalled at the thought of kllling one's own family members. However cultural impetus can be quite powerful. Years ago I had some problems when I was dating a Japanese girl; her parents liked me but didn't really want her seeing me and did all they could to discourage it. We were never that serious anyway, but I thought it to be a bit sad. On the other hand, I remember how "wary" my nephew's parents were a while back when he was dating a "Moroccan" girl, till they found out that her family were Christians and card-carrying conservatives. Heh.

Admit it. We all have our little impulsive tendencies to be a bit bias and wary sometimes when it comes to cross-cultural situations.



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somerled
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Admiral MacDonald RN
Minuet
Jan 9 2008, 01:32 PM
somerled
Jan 8 2008, 07:38 PM
Minuet
Jan 9 2008, 02:53 AM
somerled
Jan 8 2008, 11:24 AM
Minuet
Jan 9 2008, 01:09 AM
Admiralbill_gomec
Jan 8 2008, 09:30 AM
Dr. Noah
Jan 8 2008, 09:17 AM
Even if the BBC isn't offered in your area, you can always listen to them online.  Articles from the BBC are best because not only do they actually report on world events in every part of the world but they have previous related stories linked to each article so that you can get the whole story instead of thirty second soundbytes.  Just imagine.

So do any other number of media outlets.

I want to add that the BBC is not always the best. They have thier own biases.

AB is right in suggesting that there are many news sources one can get the full picture from. The BBC can be a part of that - but to suggest it provides a complete and accurate picture on it's own is wrong.

The My BBC's 24HR WORLD NEWS SERVICE does not edit or control in anyway the segments of news from other countries that broadcast as part of the service.

Just in case you missed , the link is provided , so you have no excuse and can access it if you want to.

I don't understand your point Somerled. This is still all BBC - they are not broadcasting the POV of other networks and stations.

I said that they were PART of a balanced picture. Just not an entire balanced picture. I've discussed my feelings about certain biases in the BBC previously and don't need to go into it again here. Suffice it to say that the BBC is not the be all and the end all of news coverage.

Actually , they are , you would know that if you listened to the non-british non-BBC segments , where BBC 24HR WORLD NEWS SERVICE picks up other networks in one or two hour blocks.

Hard to get more balanced and varied than that.

Also SBS (TV) here in Australia does something similar (thought some of the news segments are in foreign languages so not useful to me).

And you really believe that they don't screen the content before they broadcast it? :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

I had no idea you were so naive :loling:



:rolleyes:

:rotfl: :loling: :rotfl:

That's a serious allegation you've made against BBC , care to produce some evidence ?

I doubt it , they pick up the radio broadcasts and simply relay in real time. Any delay is only a matter of seconds (time it takes to bounce radio from satellites back to earth).


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