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Alexander Tyler and Democracy
Topic Started: Jan 2 2008, 11:17 AM (621 Views)
Dandandat
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Time to put something here
38957
Jan 3 2008, 10:35 AM
taxation is taking, not giving and that is your (and most of the left's) redirect

No, sorry taxation is not 'taking' it is something you give to be a member of society. Don’t like it stop being a member of society.
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Hoss
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Don't make me use my bare hands on you.
Dandandat
Jan 3 2008, 10:42 AM
38957
Jan 3 2008, 10:35 AM
taxation is taking, not giving and that is your (and most of the left's) redirect

No, sorry taxation is not 'taking' it is something you give to be a member of society. Don’t like it stop being a member of society.

Often you make sense. This time, no. At any rate, i am not playing any more silly semantic games with you on this subject.
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Dandandat
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Time to put something here
38957
Jan 3 2008, 12:40 PM
Dandandat
Jan 3 2008, 10:42 AM
38957
Jan 3 2008, 10:35 AM
taxation is taking, not giving and that is your (and most of the left's) redirect

No, sorry taxation is not 'taking' it is something you give to be a member of society. Don’t like it stop being a member of society.

Often you make sense. This time, no. At any rate, i am not playing any more silly semantic games with you on this subject.

I am making perfect sense. Whether you agree or not with each and every individual expense being paid for by government collected taxes you are obligated to pay those taxes in compensation for being a member of the society. They are your dues to the club we can the Untied States. You aren’t ever being stolen from when these taxes are collected. You, by virtue of living in this society, have agreed to pay them in order to support said society. You can always decide to leave the society and you will no longer be obligated to pay your dues.

Because Taxation with out representation is something we as a society to not agree with, you are given equal opportunity to voice your opinion on what you think the taxes ought to be and ought to be used for. However if your point of view is not supported by enough people to change legislation, then you loss the democratic decision making process. That does not make you a victim of taxation, its part of the system you agreed to be a part of by being a member of the society.

The idea that you are being stolen from because you do not individually agree with one expense being paid for by government collected taxes is juvenile. You alone do not get to say what is right and wrong for the whole of society. What you get to do is voice your opinion and garish support until the majority agrees that you are correct, then together you all become the correct party. Or you can leave society.

Your mentality here is no different then those who clam “Bush is not my president,” because they don’t agree with the outcome the feel initialed to play the victim. When in reality the outcome of the last two elections are just as much their resistibility as anyone else.
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8247
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Apparently we look like this now
^^^

So, you like your tax dollars to go to polititans pet projects, and generational welfare families?
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Dandandat
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Time to put something here
8247
Jan 3 2008, 02:04 PM
^^^

So, you like your tax dollars to go to polititans pet projects, and generational welfare families?

Nope I don’t, but what I as an individual like or dislike is only relevant so far as how many other people in society agree with me and the support we can generate. If the question comes up in an election and we loss, then we lost, we aren’t being stolen from.
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ds9074
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Admiral
Tax isnt stealing as that implies an illegal theft of property has taken place.

There are many things that are better paid for and better delivered collectively than individually. The defence of the nation, maintaing law and order, the guarantee of education for all, the collection and safe disposal of waste, the maintence of public goods such as roads and walkways, street lights, parks etc.

Many of these things fall into one of these catagories (or several);

A) If they didnt happen they would negatively effect not just individuals but wider society

B) If there wasnt compulsion in paying for them then many would not bother until they found they suddenly needed it

C) They would not be provided for by market forces because of B and/or because the risks involved are too high or the payback on the setup too long

D) They are goods or services which society whats to guarantee to everyone, regardless of their ability to pay.

E) They are good or services which only a democratically elected government, for all its faults still ultimately answerable to the people, can be trusted to control.
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Hoss
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Don't make me use my bare hands on you.
I didn't say that taxation was stealing, I said that it was taking. And it is.
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Dandandat
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Time to put something here
38957
Jan 3 2008, 05:37 PM
I didn't say that taxation was stealing, I said that it was taking. And it is.

I see,


Well then spending money that the treasury doesn’t have is also taking, it’s just taking from your future rather then your present. That is what the current government, who gave you tax cuts, have done.

That is what the majority had voted for, the people who offered them more money from the public treasury (in this case future money). And it was not done for social reasons.

6 of one half dozen of the other
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