Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]
We hope you enjoy your visit.


You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our community, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free.


Join our community!


If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features:

Username:   Password:
Add Reply
The Atheists Mantra; Why is the thought of no afterlife scary
Topic Started: Sep 28 2005, 10:24 AM (1,292 Views)
captain_proton_au
Member Avatar
A Robot in Disguise

A nice little summary from a christain site


Posted Image

Source

That shows barely a change in % of the worlds population of Christians between 1950 and 2000

Actaully shows Muslims and agnostics growing faster ( that figure for % muslims 1950 is incorrect, should be 15.1%)
Offline | Profile | Quote | ^
 
Dandandat
Member Avatar
Time to put something here
HistoryDude
Oct 6 2005, 02:50 PM
Well, this is what will get me in trouble, again, I'm sure. I am not judging anyone or putting anyone else's religion down or attacking anyone, nor do I think I'm better than them. This is what God has said and I just know in my heart to be true. If Jesus has been revealed to a some one in an earnest, honest, and loving way, and has been taught His commandments, yet that person still does not accept His sacrifice, nor repent of his/her sins (and Christians believe we are all born with sin), then that person is lost. That is the fundamental truth that binds, or should bind, all Christian denominations and churches. For those who have never been shown Jesus, it is another matter and cannot be condemned.

HistoryDude, Since you said it I will make the point again. Nothing you have written here should be offensive to any one. I know it’s not offensive to me. They are your beliefs, I do not agree with them, but I can also not say they are wrong.

It was offensive when you made blanket statements about how people are and act in the here and now just because they belong to a certain group, when it can be clearly seen not to be true. That is called stereo typing, and is far different then saying “my beliefs say you don’t get into heaven”
Offline | Profile | Quote | ^
 
HistoryDude
Member Avatar
Shaken, not stirred...
Dandandat
Oct 6 2005, 04:43 PM
But it has been my experience that theistic people do that as well. Some pick an chose which morals form their respective teachings they want to follow and ignore the rest. Some times this is done through ignorance and we can say “they aren’t being a good such and such” but some times it is done honestly, they don’t agree with such and such rule yet they agree with most of the rules and still honestly call them selves by this religion. Again, theist people do not hold the corner on certainty their group waves in the wind just as much as any other group, some are extremely devout, some don’t care and the majority fall some where in the middle.

I do not agree. Every religion has core elements that if a person does not follow one, I don't see how they can call themselves a believer. If a Muslim does not follow the 5 main pillars of that faith (giving to the poor, praying 5 times a day, acknowledging only Allah and his prophet Mohammed, etc.) how can they be a Muslim? Same with Christianity. If you do not accept Jesus and follow His commandments in the Bible, how can you call yourself a Christian. Yes, there are points that the different denominations disagree on, but they all have those main, basic moral absolutes.

For Atheists, there are none to base a lifestyle on. A moral is as a moral does. Who is to say what is good and not good? Its all relative. In Christianity, it is God who says such. That is the absolute and He has given us His Word. Even those Christians who say there is human error in the Bible (and my Church does not contend that the Bible is inerrant, by they way), those people will generally say that on points of salvation, the Bible is correct. And if they don't agree with the Bible's point on salvation, then how can they call themselves a Christian? That's what Christianity is all about, for crying out loud...its about CHRIST!

Quote:
 
Where are the certain rules when it comes to theism?


For Christians, it is the Bible.

Quote:
 
Some one made them up, just as an atheist makes up his own morals.


I believe the Bible is God-breathed and written by men filled with the Holy Spirit who witnessed the events they wrote about. I do not believe it is "made up."

Quote:
 
Let me ask you this, do you live a moral life just because god tells you to?


I want to live to show people Jesus, because I acknowledge His love for me and praise Him for His saving grace. I want to live for Him because I thank Him for giving me Life and His promise for an intimate relationship with Him. I want to live by His laws because everything is about Him and everything we have comes from Him and He deserves all the Praise and Honor and Glory. It is out of love and thankfulness that I strive to live like Him as best I can.

Quote:
 
But what I can argue is the idea you have that atheist think "why does it matter" or "why should they" just because we think we turn to dust at the end.


Again, so that I don't generalize, I did not say all Atheists.

Quote:
 
That is absolutely false, are you sitting here telling me the only thing keeping you from killing the person standing closest to you right now is god’s word or the law?...Just because an atheist doesn’t have god in their life doesn’t mean they are predisposed to go out and kill people. Same thing goes for stealing. Unless you think humans in our society are by and large some unintelligent and uncultured animal that are only stopped from killing some one because it says not to in some book, you can not possible believe that murder is fair game for an atheist once the law goes out the window.


Hey, you wanted to talk in hypotheticals. If you and I grew up in a society totally devoid of law, government, and/or God, whose to say what we would be like. But, no, we have been raised in a society with both of those and so influenced. And murder is an extreme example in human terms, but other immoral acts are the same to God, which leads to other points like,

Quote:
 
Oh and as for "Thou shall not commit adultery" – that ones was begging broken long before our growing secular society. And its not just atheists who are committing adultery, there’ant even enough of us in this country to make up the amount of people who are committing adultery, so some of you theist people must be doing it to.


You are right. I never said Christians are perfect, better than you, or without sin. I stumble along the way, too. Another great thing about Christ is His forgiveness, even for unbelievers, and His unconditional love. And for those in sin, there is a way back to Him and the Bible is God's Word and absolute truth to base that lifestyle on. And no, I am not saying that if an Atheist makes a mistake, they can’t be sincerely sorry. But just to use this as an example, if a Christian commits adultery, then they are willfully dis-obeying a moral command of God. Then its up to that person to seek forgiveness. If an Atheist commits adultery, the morality or immorality all depends on what that person thinks. And, yes, I believe many Christians don’t commit adultery because of that command and I believe many Atheists would because it doesn’t matter.

Man, I'm telling you, I was right where you are once. I didn’t believe in or need a god that I can't see, I told myself. No, I did not kill, steal, or commit adultery. I respected others and treated them kindly. And, believe it or not, I had generally good views of most of my fellow humans. I was not living like a Christian, to be sure. I was just living day to day, because the other non-believing philosophies were saying that was all there was to life. "Enjoy it now, because it won't last" is along the lines of the popular phrase. I knew in my heart that could not be all and I'm convinced now.
Offline | Profile | Quote | ^
 
HistoryDude
Member Avatar
Shaken, not stirred...
captain_proton_au
Oct 6 2005, 04:53 PM
A nice little summary from a christain site

That shows barely a change in % of the worlds population of Christians between 1950 and 2000

Actaully shows Muslims and agnostics growing faster ( that figure for % muslims 1950 is incorrect, should be 15.1%)

Informative statistics. Thanks au...
Offline | Profile | Quote | ^
 
Dandandat
Member Avatar
Time to put something here
HistoryDude
Oct 6 2005, 05:42 PM
Man, I'm telling you, I was right where you are once. I didn’t believe in or need a god that I can't see, I told myself. No, I did not kill, steal, or commit adultery. I respected others and treated them kindly. And, believe it or not, I had generally good views of most of my fellow humans. I was not living like a Christian, to be sure. I was just living day to day, because the other non-believing philosophies were saying that was all there was to life. "Enjoy it now, because it won't last" is along the lines of the popular phrase. I knew in my heart that could not be all and I'm convinced now.

I am glad you have found your way
Offline | Profile | Quote | ^
 
Coda
Member Avatar
Commander
psyfi
Oct 5 2005, 06:26 AM
Twilight
Oct 5 2005, 03:07 AM
If every Human understood, we are not rare, that we are not special, and that there is no purpose for us being born, then...what would follow is the collapse of a society.


What if every person learned that all life is precious and special in its own way and that there is Divine purpose in it all and that Divine purpose is to love one another regardless of differences in looks, beliefs, ideology, religion or lack of religion? What might that do to society?


Well, I can only imagine that would bring stagnation more quickly.

Offline | Profile | Quote | ^
 
psyfi
psyfi
Twilight
Oct 7 2005, 12:19 AM
psyfi
Oct 5 2005, 06:26 AM
Twilight
Oct 5 2005, 03:07 AM
If every Human understood, we are not rare, that we are not special, and that there is no purpose for us being born, then...what would follow is the collapse of a society.


What if every person learned that all life is precious and special in its own way and that there is Divine purpose in it all and that Divine purpose is to love one another regardless of differences in looks, beliefs, ideology, religion or lack of religion? What might that do to society?


Well, I can only imagine that would bring stagnation more quickly.

Wow, you associate love with stagnation???? That is the first time I have ever heard that one.
Offline | Profile | Quote | ^
 
captain_proton_au
Member Avatar
A Robot in Disguise

psyfi
Oct 7 2005, 12:40 AM
Twilight
Oct 7 2005, 12:19 AM
psyfi
Oct 5 2005, 06:26 AM
Twilight
Oct 5 2005, 03:07 AM
If every Human understood, we are not rare, that we are not special, and that there is no purpose for us being born, then...what would follow is the collapse of a society.


What if every person learned that all life is precious and special in its own way and that there is Divine purpose in it all and that Divine purpose is to love one another regardless of differences in looks, beliefs, ideology, religion or lack of religion? What might that do to society?


Well, I can only imagine that would bring stagnation more quickly.

Wow, you associate love with stagnation???? That is the first time I have ever heard that one.

i think he's referring to the fact that hyperthetically, if we all did find out for sure God exists and created the universe, then theres no reason for us to grow, we'd all just go back read over both Testaments, spend the rest of our lives making sure we follow the Ten commandments and then we'd know we've achieved everything in life that we are here for.

No space exploration as we know theres nothing but rocks and ice out there, no scientific efforts to discover our beginnings. No need to worry so much about Medical research, for if we're all good little christians we are going to relax in heaven with all our family and friends anyway when we die

Stagnation.
Offline | Profile | Quote | ^
 
Coda
Member Avatar
Commander

Thank you Captain. Close enough.
Offline | Profile | Quote | ^
 
psyfi
psyfi
captain_proton_au
Oct 7 2005, 02:33 AM
psyfi
Oct 7 2005, 12:40 AM
Twilight
Oct 7 2005, 12:19 AM
psyfi
Oct 5 2005, 06:26 AM
Twilight
Oct 5 2005, 03:07 AM
If every Human understood, we are not rare, that we are not special, and that there is no purpose for us being born, then...what would follow is the collapse of a society.


What if every person learned that all life is precious and special in its own way and that there is Divine purpose in it all and that Divine purpose is to love one another regardless of differences in looks, beliefs, ideology, religion or lack of religion? What might that do to society?


Well, I can only imagine that would bring stagnation more quickly.

Wow, you associate love with stagnation???? That is the first time I have ever heard that one.

i think he's referring to the fact that hyperthetically, if we all did find out for sure God exists and created the universe, then theres no reason for us to grow, we'd all just go back read over both Testaments, spend the rest of our lives making sure we follow the Ten commandments and then we'd know we've achieved everything in life that we are here for.

No space exploration as we know theres nothing but rocks and ice out there, no scientific efforts to discover our beginnings. No need to worry so much about Medical research, for if we're all good little christians we are going to relax in heaven with all our family and friends anyway when we die

Stagnation.

Well that might be the response of somebody who thinks that the totality of God is the Ten Commandments but I don’t see it that way. The bible says God is Love. When I love something, I get into it. Why have I joined SisterTrek and had so many great experiences interacting with people? Because I love Star Trek and science fiction! Why do I read about theoretical physics (lay person’s books and articles) because I love science in general and this element of it in particular and therefore I enjoy learning as much as I can understand about it. I love to eat and so I buy cook books and watch the food channel and make some pretty good eats from time to time. God created and gave us this world out of love for us to love it and one another which is to say to enjoy it, to make ourselves and others happy. Love moves a person to have fun and enjoyment by interacting with all they love. There is no way that Love does not make a person want to live life to the fullest. To love life is to embrace it and all that it offers.
Offline | Profile | Quote | ^
 
captain_proton_au
Member Avatar
A Robot in Disguise

I dont see where Twilight did actually associate love with stagnation.


And I dont really see what your post above has to do with my post before it, or Twilights
Offline | Profile | Quote | ^
 
psyfi
psyfi
captain_proton_au
Oct 7 2005, 09:18 AM
I dont see where Twilight did actually associate love with stagnation.


And I dont really see what your post above has to do with my post before it, or Twilights

Odd then, that you answered it.
Offline | Profile | Quote | ^
 
captain_proton_au
Member Avatar
A Robot in Disguise

I answered what I thought Twilight meant by "stagnation"

I still dont see the link between Love and Stagnation :headscratch:
Offline | Profile | Quote | ^
 
psyfi
psyfi
captain_proton_au
Oct 7 2005, 09:57 AM
I answered what I thought Twilight meant by "stagnation"

I still dont see the link between Love and Stagnation :headscratch:

In brief, my question was: What if the Divine purpose was to love? To the extent that I understood Twilight, the answer was that this would lead to stagnation. I probably was not clear enough in expressing myself.


Offline | Profile | Quote | ^
 
captain_proton_au
Member Avatar
A Robot in Disguise

The way I took it was that Twilight answered stagnation in response to "What if we found out Divinity was true"
Offline | Profile | Quote | ^
 
Go to Next Page
« Previous Topic · Spiritual Journeys · Next Topic »
Add Reply

Tweet
comments powered by Disqus