Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]
We hope you enjoy your visit.


You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our community, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free.


Join our community!


If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features:

Username:   Password:
Add Reply
The Atheists Mantra; Why is the thought of no afterlife scary
Topic Started: Sep 28 2005, 10:24 AM (1,296 Views)
Swidden
Member Avatar
Adm. Gadfly-at-large; Provisional wRench-fly at large
Fesarius
Oct 4 2005, 10:53 AM
It is unchallenging to be an atheist. Since I like to be challenged, I cannot practice atheism, except that I am (as I have said on other occasions) a Thor-atheist, since I do not believe in Thor.

BTW, I won't be responding to (nor defending) the above claim for various reasons. :lol:

I know Thor exists. I've read his comic books over the years. :P :angel: :whistle:
Offline | Profile | Quote | ^
 
psyfi
psyfi
Franko
Oct 4 2005, 11:09 PM
Nobody's ever been burned at the stake for not believing in gravity; whilst the atrocity index for "those who believe differently than we about God" is quite extensive.

That's ONLY because scientists have yet to rule the world. I am 100 percent convinced if tomorrow we put the scientists in charge it would take less than 50 years to find ourselves forced into a reality not unlike that presented in the movie "Gattaca."







Offline | Profile | Quote | ^
 
Coda
Member Avatar
Commander
Amazing how we are conditioned to Capitalize a Religion.


And not Capitalize Atheism.


Well Trained Monkeys.

Without a belief in end judgement, society would realize the purpose of religion.

It's better to teach them to believe. Else...
Offline | Profile | Quote | ^
 
Franko
Member Avatar
Shower Moderator
psyfi
Oct 4 2005, 09:49 PM
Franko
Oct 4 2005, 11:09 PM
Nobody's ever been burned at the stake for not believing in gravity; whilst the atrocity index for "those who believe differently than we about God" is quite extensive.

That's ONLY because scientists have yet to rule the world. I am 100 percent convinced if tomorrow we put the scientists in charge it would take less than 50 years to find ourselves forced into a reality not unlike that presented in the movie "Gattaca."



Nor would I. I'd never want to see any group, religious or otherwise, put into a position of absolute power who have a distinct "agenda".


Just to broaden the scope of the discussion, do some of you not feel that there has been a certain degree of symbiosis (or feedback) between scientific humanism and religion, especially in the philosophical degree?

For instance, modern science in it's progress over the last three hundred years has displayed revelations that were previously unknown; and have been since accepted by those of faith. At the same time, religion and it's respect for human dignity and life have also affected the sense of ethics and morality regarding scientific experimentation. I'm not sure that we're dealing with a black and white condition here. Then of course, there are after all a number of religious and agnostic scientists in the midst of all this as well.

I'm curious to know just what in fact forms the basis of this hostility towards "science", a theme that Who keeps bringing up as well.


Offline | Profile | Quote | ^
 
Coda
Member Avatar
Commander

I wouldn't call it hatred towards science. I would label it a fear. It is symbiotic. Symbiotic in the manner that, science leads us.

Look at the past. After every peak of civilization, a collapse. then ages of stagnation.


Religion serves a purpose. That purpose is to instill in people that there is a reason we are here, and that Humans are special. Religion has adopted the scientific facts when leaders felt the majority have stabilized and are able to live with small steps towards the facts. Cautiously Religions have let in the light.

The only way humans will have society is if they believe there is a purpose to their existance. The cold hard facts are Life is everywhere and Humans are not special. They are not alone, either. But, the divide is great because of Humans frailty. Or, more precisely, Humans perceive themselves as frail.

We have conditioned the Humans to think of themselves as special, frail and rare.
Although all untrue, that is what we want them to believe, so they go on.

If every Human understood, we are not rare, that we are not special, and that there is no purpose for us being born, then...what would follow is the collapse of a society.

So as the facts of science become undeniable, religion adopts them. In increments.

Eventually, as every society before us. The general education of the majority will reach a level of understanding of the Human condition and its plight. And either that civilization will destroy itself, or it will, not. If it does there will be a period of stagnation. Then, as before, someone will convince another that there is something worth living for. Something outside themselves. And that all their good deeds will be rewarded.


Offline | Profile | Quote | ^
 
who
Have light saber. Will travel.
I find these discussions take a fair amount of time and energy. While many subjects could be brought up, I suggest we stick to the topic at hand in this thread. It is too easy to get disrupted by tangents. I cannot discuss these kind of issues if everyone is throwing their own tangents into this thread. :(

Would it be better to start new topics on the other issues?
Offline | Profile | Quote | ^
 
Dandandat
Member Avatar
Time to put something here
who
Oct 4 2005, 11:18 PM
^^^ Dan, as I said, words are just symbols for concepts. Most words have several definitions. I do not think we can logically discuss something unless we agree with the meaning of the words we are using. I am suggesting the narrower definition of atheism and using agnostic for someone who has no beliefs regarding God. I think this is more precise. Is this acceptable to you for the purpose of this discussion?

Yes
Offline | Profile | Quote | ^
 
psyfi
psyfi
Twilight
Oct 5 2005, 03:07 AM
If every Human understood, we are not rare, that we are not special, and that there is no purpose for us being born, then...what would follow is the collapse of a society.


What if every person learned that all life is precious and special in its own way and that there is Divine purpose in it all and that Divine purpose is to love one another regardless of differences in looks, beliefs, ideology, religion or lack of religion? What might that do to society?


Offline | Profile | Quote | ^
 
psyfi
psyfi
who
Oct 5 2005, 06:11 AM
I find these discussions take a fair amount of time and energy. While many subjects could be brought up, I suggest we stick to the topic at hand in this thread. It is too easy to get disrupted by tangents. I cannot discuss these kind of issues if everyone is throwing their own tangents into this thread. :(

Would it be better to start new topics on the other issues?

It seems like it would be a good topic to start on another thread. I do basically agree with what Franko said.
Offline | Profile | Quote | ^
 
Fesarius
Member Avatar
Admiral
Quote:
 
Would it be better to start new topics on the other issues?

Probably. 24 used to clamp down on these, but she is either on vacation or the checks from various SisterTrek members have ceased.... ;)
Offline | Profile | Quote | ^
 
who
Have light saber. Will travel.
I have been wondering about 24 too. Most of the time I do not mind tangents but on topics that are difficult to discuss it makes it all that much more difficult when tangents are thrown in.
Offline | Profile | Quote | ^
 
HistoryDude
Member Avatar
Shaken, not stirred...
captain_proton_au
Sep 29 2005, 09:25 PM
HistoryDude
Sep 29 2005, 01:16 PM

And, maybe this is off-topic, but for those who think we just *poof* non-exist at death, I have to ask, where is your hope in that? :shrug:

Hope for what?

Exactly. Atheists have none to offer. No hope for any truth. No hope for any absolute. No hope that things will get better when you’re in those valleys, or that something is still in control during difficult times. No hope that a greater purpose is at work. No hope that anything awaits beyond this life other than you turn to dust and that’s it. So the response is “live life to the fullest and have fun while you can because nothing really matters.” No absolutes, no moral grounding, no truths…all relativism and me, me, me. Gives me horrible flashbacks of the 80’s!

What I see from Atheists is that they are uncomfortable with the “rules” of a lifestyle predicated upon the existence of a Supreme Being. They are disgruntled that this Being is “better than them,” a position naturally by default as Creator of all creation. They are disillusioned by hypocrites who claim to follow such a Being, yet seem to live a lifestyle incompatible with its doctrine. And most of all, they resent having to give up of themselves when they’d rather follow their own selfish desires and carnal nature. And so they use the easy justification, “You can’t see God,” to prove in their own minds that He doesn’t exist and that way they can do what they want.

I will use Christianity as the basis of my thoughts here, because, after serious searching of my own, I find it to be the one true lifestyle based on experience, history, logic, and plain common sense. I’ve gone the Atheist route. I’ve called myself Agnostic. I’ve dwelled into Eastern philosophy. I’ve searched for all the answers in a secular world and tried to base it upon Science. I used all those justifications and arguments. I've been there. I followed my selfish nature and did what I pleased. I had fun at the time, but in my gut I always knew that it was all fleeting and meant nothing. Worthless. Pointless. Who cares? There had to be more.

Every person in the back of their minds wonders about such things. What is there to life? What is beyond this? There are those who say they don’t ponder such things; but I will respectfully smile and say, “Ok, sure.” There are some that say they have, but reached the conclusion there is no God because they can’t see Him; but that concept still sits there in their mind, because although they use that argument, they still can't prove it. Its only human to do so. And that curiosity is also God-given. I’ve no doubt, now, in my mind that it is the Holy Spirit pricking our hearts to seek God out. He desires that relationship with us, but will not force us to come to Him. He wants loving and willful relationships, not automatons that simply do his bidding by force. His Spirit was that “gut feeling” that forced me to keep searching for those answers. For Him. To change my life. And I give Him all the praise for it.

And how anyone can look around at the complexity and vastness of creation in all its perfect balance and intricate detail and interconnectedness and not believe in God is beyond me and perhaps as difficult for me to understand (now) as it is for an Atheist to understand why I do.
Offline | Profile | Quote | ^
 
Fesarius
Member Avatar
Admiral
Dude,

That was an excellent post, and nicely written. Thanks. :)
Offline | Profile | Quote | ^
 
HistoryDude
Member Avatar
Shaken, not stirred...
Dandandat
Oct 4 2005, 03:05 PM
You said god is not to blame for the bad things because our free will allowed us to create the bad things. If that’s true, I postulate that god is not to be honored for the good things that happen because our free will allowed us to create the good things (this is true even if the good things happen because we are more in line with god, because we still made it happen. God didn’t make us more in line with god, we made our selves more in line with god).

If god is not to be blamed for our bad choices, and he is not be honored for our own good choices, then I do not see the importance of believing (or even disbelieving) in god. If there is no importance in god then he might as well not exist.

This part of the debate has gotten all convoluted, it seems. From a Christian standpoint, God is the author, giver, and instigator of all reactions to the behavior of our free will, good or bad. All of these consequences are directed from God, in the form of either punishment (bad things) or blessings (good things). But that is not to say that all who "deserve" bad things will get them and all who "deserve" good things will get them. It is also not to say that all who "deserve" good will not have bad things happen to them, nor all who "deserve" bad things will not have good things happen to them. God's plan and timing is not of our own.

This is another problem Atheists have; they try to discredit an infinite and omnipotent God in finite and human terms (i.e., physical tangibles). It cannot often be done, and in their case as they have no Faith, it cannot be done at all. And I'm the first Christian to admit that I can't explain everything but have the hope that I one day will be able to!

"Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known." --1 Corinthians 13:12.
Offline | Profile | Quote | ^
 
Fesarius
Member Avatar
Admiral
Dude,

I agree with what you have said 100%. But I have a vested interest in the topic, insofar as nothing is more important in life to me than God.
Offline | Profile | Quote | ^
 
Go to Next Page
« Previous Topic · Spiritual Journeys · Next Topic »
Add Reply

Tweet
comments powered by Disqus