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| Do you believe in hell?; Please read below. | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Aug 19 2005, 06:05 AM (1,130 Views) | |
| who | Aug 21 2005, 11:16 AM Post #91 |
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Have light saber. Will travel.
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psyfi, I respect your beliefs but mine our different. I believe that to be a Christian is simply to believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. I believe that the resurrection, not the crucifixtion, is the key to the Passion. There have been so many changes to the Bible over time, and for other reasons, I believe that the Bible, although sacred, contains errors. |
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| who | Aug 21 2005, 11:20 AM Post #92 |
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Have light saber. Will travel.
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Yo-Yo Your description of hell sounds similar to the Catholic idea of purgatory. I do not know if it is true or not but seems reasonable. |
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| ~Luthien~ | Aug 21 2005, 11:31 AM Post #93 |
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Little Sister Of Sistertrek
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I've been watchin a little bit too much 'Constantine' I think
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| psyfi | Aug 21 2005, 12:47 PM Post #94 |
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psyfi
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I am speaking New Testament bible to Luthien, and I think that most Christians, despite their differences in denominations, despite the various editions and editings (which are still going on!) agree that at the cross, all sin was forgiven. While Jesus had no sin, his resurrection declares the truth of this to all of his followers and becomes a great symbol of their own innocence, giving meaning to what Paul said in Romans which was that now there is no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus. |
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| ds9074 | Aug 22 2005, 10:49 AM Post #95 |
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Admiral
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I believe in hell however I dont believe in the idea of suffering for eternity. My idea of hell is perhaps along the lines that it is revealed to you what you could have had in heaven but you are denied that blessing. Maybe I am wrong, I dont know and I really dont want to find out thanks :rolleyes: |
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| captain_proton_au | Aug 22 2005, 12:46 PM Post #96 |
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A Robot in Disguise
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BTW, why are Atheists singled out in this poll, and why are they grouped with Agnostics? |
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| psyfi | Aug 22 2005, 01:33 PM Post #97 |
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psyfi
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CP, regarding your avatar, I also happen to be suffering "severe symptom withdrawal from Smallville" and nobody going through that could possible doubt that there is a hell and that they are in it. |
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| ~Luthien~ | Aug 23 2005, 04:40 AM Post #98 |
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Little Sister Of Sistertrek
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Cuz Atheists don't believe in hell?
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| who | Aug 23 2005, 05:10 AM Post #99 |
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Have light saber. Will travel.
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Because, by definition, atheists and agnostics probably do not believe in hell. I was curious how many that believe in God believe in hell. This was brought about by the recent statements of the family members to the BTK serial killer who wished a fate for him worse than what he did. I would never want anyone to burn in horrible torture forever in hell and I do not think God does either because I believe God is unconditional love, always. |
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| psyfi | Aug 23 2005, 08:19 AM Post #100 |
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psyfi
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While I was not surprised that family members wanted this guy to suffer beyond belief, I also was rather surprised that they were justifying their loathing via the bible and wishing him eternal damnation like this was God's one and only concern regarding him. I mean, if they are the great Christians they claim to be wouldn't they like to see him saved and transformed by the Love and Power of God? |
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| who | Aug 23 2005, 11:11 AM Post #101 |
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Have light saber. Will travel.
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This was my thought as well. |
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| Yo-Yo | Aug 23 2005, 01:32 PM Post #102 |
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Captain
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Few question (i hope they are not considured off topic). I hope i dont offend anyone but they are seriously things i dont understand aobut christianity. First, why did Jesus dying for all our sins? What was the purpose if we are all still sinning, i.e. what did it accomplish? Second, why do many christians beleive you have to beleive in Jesus in order to go to heaven? That seems like an incredibly pass and fail system. Believe -heaven, do not - hell?
Judaism often accociates god with a loving father. He loves us but with punish us for our own good. The tow main names of god often appear written in the bible side by side. One stands for mercy, the other judgement. As Judiasm beleives that god is perfect and therefore the perfect judge taking all into account and exacting punishment measure for measure. However there are option made available through gods mercy. One is repentance which can attone for sins. Or the sin can be punished in differnet ways some more or less severe (like a big punch or many little pinches as an example). Reward and punishment can also be given in this world or the next. THis is a way of explaining why the evil prosper and righteous suffer. Unconditional love means forgiving all sins out of love. In judiasm this is not the case. God loves us but will punish us as he sees fit for our own good. |
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| who | Aug 23 2005, 02:27 PM Post #103 |
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Have light saber. Will travel.
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I am not your typical Christian. Many things in traditional Christianity never made sense to me. I believe in the teachings of "A Course in Miracles". For many that are familar with the "Course", it is the third testiment of the Bible. It is a correction and expansion of the Bible.
It has never made any sense to me that Jesus died on the Cross for our sins. To me, Jesus' life is one we must follow in terms of his love and devotion to God. We must awaken and overcome the belief in death. We all have the potential to overcome death as Jesus has shown. So, again, the key in the Passion was the forgiveness by Jesus and his resurrection.
To me, Jesus is the only one I know of who has overcome death. I think the path to God is through waking up, not through death. I believe the path to Heaven is through Jesus as Christ because we all must wake up to our identity as part of the Son of God as Christ. Jesus can be thought of as an older brother. I do not believe in hell except as we make it for ourselves. As for the rest, a totally loving God does not punish or judge against His children. It is we who must change by not judging against others or ourselves. The path to Heaven is though total forgiveness by us. I also do not believe in sin. Sin implies something real, something that exists. The only time that really exists is this ever present instant. There is no past and no future except as we make it up. Since there is no past, past actions do not exist. Instead, we are constantly making choices. Some of these choices are correct and some are errors. An error can always be undone. We can change our minds. I doubt if any of this explains the common Christian beliefs as the ones you mention do not make make any sense to me either. |
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| gdog243 | Aug 23 2005, 04:21 PM Post #104 |
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Rear Admiral
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I do believe there is a hell. I hope my soul doesn't go there and goes to the kingdom of god instead. |
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| psyfi | Aug 23 2005, 06:55 PM Post #105 |
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psyfi
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Yo-yo, this is my understanding of NT bible. However, other denominations of Christians may interpret the NT in a different way. As I have been taught, the essence of the teaching is the establishment of a new covenant by God. The old covenant is still operative and still works and will work as long as it is needed; this is merely another one. Under the Old Covenant, sacrifice for sins was called for; thus, the Israelites were required to make animal sacrifices for substitutionary atonement; that is, an animal's death took the place of a person's death, death being the penalty for sin the NT teaches in Romans 6:23. Exodus 29:36a (NLT) states, "Each day you must sacrifice a young bull as an offering for the atonement of sin." With the death of Jesus, all sacrifice is done for all people. He is the one and only sacrifice needed. Thus, all atonement is provided to those who accept him as Savior and Lord. This is what the NT teaches. In Hebrews 9:12-15 (NLT), we are told "Once for all time he took blood into that Most Holy Place, but not the blood of goats and calves. He took his own blood, and with it he secured our salvation forever. Under the old system, the blood of goats and bulls and the ashes of a young cow could cleanse people's bodies from ritual defilement. Just think how much more the blood of Christ will purify our hearts from deeds that lead to death so that we can worship the living God. For by the power of the eternal Spirit, Christ offered himself to God as a perfect sacrifice for our sins. That is why he is the one who mediates the new covenant between God and people, so that all who are invited can receive the eternal inheritance God has promised them. For Christ died to set them free from the penalty of the sins they had committed under that first covenant.” So the teaching is that through Jesus Christ, no more sacrifices are needed and salvation is free by merely accepting the sacrifice that he made. He didn’t do it to make people stop sinning. He did it to stop them from going to hell as a result of sin. Many Christians believe that this covenant replaced the earlier one but I don’t believe that because God repeatedly stated that His covenant with his people, Israel, is for all time. So, really the bible teaches that those who obey the Old Covenant and/or who receive the sacrifice made for them in the New Covenant (Jesus) will all go to heaven. The rest, it states, have no way to atone, no covenant with God and given that the wages of sin are both physical and spiritual death (the NT teaches), they have no recourse but to go to hell. Of course, as you can see on this thread, there is speculation that God has other resources that would stop this. |
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1:50 PM Jul 11