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Do you believe in hell?; Please read below.
Topic Started: Aug 19 2005, 06:05 AM (1,131 Views)
psyfi
psyfi
Fesarius
Aug 20 2005, 01:07 PM
^^^
Wouldn't it be astonishing to find out that we have been living in non-linear time all along? LOL.

Quote:
 
Re the scripture on time and time, you are referring to the passages in the Books of Daniel and Revelation?

Affirmative. :)

Not so astonishing at all given quantum theory. We already know that our perceptions can be quite deviant from what is actually occurring. For example, it seems, just based on perceptions, a sure bet that the sun "rises" in the east and "sets" in the West. But that isn't what is going on at all. Based on walking down the street, one would swear that the earth seems flat as a pancake but that also isn't the case.

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~Luthien~
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Little Sister Of Sistertrek
who
Aug 20 2005, 09:26 AM
~Luthien~
Aug 20 2005, 04:42 AM
Fesarius
Aug 19 2005, 03:40 PM
Quote:
 
Luthien, I believe that each choice we make is either for or against God. These choices keep us out of Heaven.

Who,

I would agree with the first sentence. However, I'm not sure about the second, since I cannot know the ultimate decision God will make regarding this. After all, we do know that God's mind can be changed. ;)

The passage in 2 Peter 3:9 which talks about God's not willing that any should perish has intrigued me for years. If God's will cannot be undone (which I do not believe is true either logically or epistemologically), then none would perish. But it's an interesting question nevertheless.

But if you make the wrong mistake God is willing to forgive right?

Luthien, once again, just to be clear, these are my beliefs. I do not present them as fact. God does not forgive because He has never not forgiven. A common expression is that God is love. Unconditional love is love that is always present, it never changes. I believe God's love for us is always maximal and does not change. If we make the wrong choice it does not change God's love for us. God does not get angry. When we make the wrong choice we suffer because it moves us further from God (or to be more precise, it decreases our awareness of God as God is always here). The only forgiveness that must take place is on our part.

Ah I see,cuz ive made some bad choices in life i mean i still do and well hell is scary so i was afraid i might not go to heaven bcuz i made bad choices that i did regret btw.
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who
Have light saber. Will travel.
~Luthien~
Aug 20 2005, 02:36 PM
Ah I see,cuz ive made some bad choices in life i mean i still do and well hell is scary so i was afraid i might not go to heaven bcuz i made bad choices that i did regret btw.

I do not belief in hell in the usual sense. I believe we are in it when we do not perceive our unity with God. I do not believe that we are help captive by the past. We can always choose again.
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Fesarius
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Admiral
^^^
But Luthien, if you don't get to heaven, who will dance for us? :) ;)

Quote:
 
Not so astonishing at all given quantum theory.

Psyfi,

Of course, this assumes one understands quantum theory. I'm a bit rusty in that area. ;) Seriously, I read a book years ago--I think The Dancing Wahtuli Masters was the title, but I may be getting it mixed up with If You See Buddha In the Road, Kill Him--which discussed predicting events based on knowing where a quantum particle was going to be at a given point in time. I know also that I have not spelled the word 'Wahtuli' correctly. It was about twenty-five years ago when I read the book.
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psyfi
psyfi
Fesarius
Aug 20 2005, 03:34 PM
^^^
But Luthien, if you don't get to heaven, who will dance for us? :) ;)

Quote:
 
Not so astonishing at all given quantum theory.

Psyfi,

Of course, this assumes one understands quantum theory. I'm a bit rusty in that area. ;) Seriously, I read a book years ago--I think The Dancing Wahtuli Masters was the title, but I may be getting it mixed up with If You See Buddha In the Road, Kill Him--which discussed predicting events based on knowing where a quantum particle was going to be at a given point in time. I know also that I have not spelled the word 'Wahtuli' correctly. It was about twenty-five years ago when I read the book.

I only have a layman's understanding of these things but I just finished watching the three hour NOVA documentary "The Elegant Universe" for the second time. I just find what I understand of this sooooo fascinating. If you are interested, you can find some wonderful and understandable info at:


http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/elegant/

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psyfi
psyfi
~Luthien~
Aug 20 2005, 02:36 PM
Ah I see,cuz ive made some bad choices in life i mean i still do and well hell is scary so i was afraid i might not go to heaven bcuz i made bad choices that i did regret btw.

Luthien, don't you believe that if you have made Jesus Lord, all your sins, past, present and even future have been forgiven?
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iancook
Unregistered

Luthian, all sins can be forgiven, there is a little thing called repentance. If you truly repent of your sins, then thes sins will be wiped from the book of life.

Acts 3: 19
19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

Acts 8: 22
22 Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee.



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Fesarius
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Admiral
Psyfi,

Thanks for the link. I recall a special on Nova years ago which asserted that all of humankind had descended from one set of parents. And that too was fascinating. :)
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psyfi
psyfi
Fesarius
Aug 20 2005, 09:49 PM
Psyfi,

Thanks for the link. I recall a special on Nova years ago which asserted that all of humankind had descended from one set of parents. And that too was fascinating. :)

I believe I saw that special also. It was amazing!
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~Luthien~
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Little Sister Of Sistertrek
psyfi
Aug 20 2005, 04:19 PM
~Luthien~
Aug 20 2005, 02:36 PM
Ah I see,cuz ive made some bad choices in life i mean i still do and well hell is scary so i was afraid i might not go to heaven bcuz i made bad choices that i did regret btw.

Luthien, don't you believe that if you have made Jesus Lord, all your sins, past, present and even future have been forgiven?

I do believe that but since i have deep mental problems i aint exactly the perfect christian and well one does get scared,i mean don't u ever worry about going to heaven or not?
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psyfi
psyfi
~Luthien~
Aug 21 2005, 05:25 AM
psyfi
Aug 20 2005, 04:19 PM
~Luthien~
Aug 20 2005, 02:36 PM
Ah I see,cuz ive made some bad choices in life i mean i still do and well hell is scary so i was afraid i might not go to heaven bcuz i made bad choices that i did regret btw.

Luthien, don't you believe that if you have made Jesus Lord, all your sins, past, present and even future have been forgiven?

I do believe that but since i have deep mental problems i aint exactly the perfect christian and well one does get scared,i mean don't u ever worry about going to heaven or not?

Oh I am far, far removed from being the perfect Christian myself but the bible teaches Salvation not by our own works but by grace. Nobody, not one, earns Salvation. My understanding of what the bible teaches is that Salvation is a gift freely given and purchased by Jesus. Isaiah 53:5 states "But He was wounded (pierced) for our transgressions, he was bruised (crushed, punished) for our iniquities; the chastisement for our peace was upon Him, and by His stripes we are healed. " This is in reference to our transgressions and sins being removed at the cross. Now this is either true or it is not true and to be a Christian is to believe that it is true no matter what. I think the call is to believe The Word of God and not our own doubts. In fact, I believe that when the bible states in Romans 12:2, "Don't be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, so that you may prove what is the good, well-pleasing, and perfect will of God," part of that transformation of the mind is letting go of our doubts and unbelief and believing that our sins are indeed forgiven.




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~Luthien~
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Little Sister Of Sistertrek
^^^

Well i do believe that and I believe what it says in the Bible.
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psyfi
psyfi
~Luthien~
Aug 21 2005, 07:48 AM
^^^

Well i do believe that and I believe what it says in the Bible.

Now what you have just written is exactly what to tell yourself when the spirit of doubt comes over you. You are indeed forgiven wholly, totally, completely.



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captain_proton_au
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A Robot in Disguise

As no one can tell me what Hell is, or when God told us what hell is or what God told us we have to do to get there.....


I dont know if I believe in Hell as I have no idea what the hell (;)) it is
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Yo-Yo
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Captain
I voted yes when in retrospect i should have voted 'other'

In Judiasm hell is not an eternal torture. I think that is more of a christian view. In Judiasm hell is a purification of the soul. A soul that has been tainted by sin goes through the fires of hell (though fire and all that is not a liter idea) and is clean of sin beofre being sent to heaven.

Rabbi Chiam of Luzatto in the 16 century wrote a book called "The way of G-d" which eloquintly explains the idea of heaven and hell:

The soul is a pure spiritual essence which strives towards perfection. As what is perfect is good. And G-d is perfect so g-d is the ultimate good, and g-d's laws are the doings of good deeds. Each good deed makes us a better person and is ergo (i always wanted to say that word) making our sole more perfect nad therefore closer to g-d. To sin does the exact opposite as it removed prefection and good from us and distances us from g-d. When we die our soal has acheived a 'level' of closeness to g-d. After leaving our 'mortal coil' which confused and clouds truth we see things with perfect clarity. Our soul realises the ultimate "bliss" is being close to g-d and realises how much closer it could have been have it not sinned. THis realisation cause the soul unimaginable pain logically porportionate to the 'distance' the soul is from g-d.

THat is hell though it is not eternal but cleansing. Base on the judgement of g-d you may have sinned to much to be sufficiently cleasned and therefore after some time on hell the soul is sent back to relive life inorder to try and achieve a closer conenction to g-d by doing more good. THat is one of the reasons this worl is so important. Though the joy is in the next we get our merit by working towards g-d in this one.
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