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| Do you believe in hell?; Please read below. | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Aug 19 2005, 06:05 AM (1,134 Views) | |
| ImpulseEngine | Aug 19 2005, 01:41 PM Post #31 |
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Admiral
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Keeping ourselves out though would have to assume that believing purely on faith is a key to entering heaven. So it's the same question. Why would God make that a make-or-break key?
As I was saying I am aware that I don't perfectly fit the definition of atheist, but for all practical purposes it comes closest to what I do believe. I didn't and wouldn't call myself agnostic though. An agnostic not only doesn't know, but doesn't care about knowing either. I do care and have invested a lot of my time and energy into the conclusions I have arrived at. I fail to see how my position is contradictory. You are right that the atheist position is a matter of faith (although I would call it "belief" because I don't think they are identical terms) because a negative (non-existence of God in this case) can never be proven. I too have difficulty accepting things on mere faith and that is why I maintain an open mind. |
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| Fesarius | Aug 19 2005, 01:45 PM Post #32 |
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Admiral
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Psyfi, I don't really know that much about Dr. Lamsa. But, I try to weigh differing interpretations against one another whenever I do critical text studies. The Peshitta is an ancient translation. For my own part, it ought not to be regarded as having special status, vs. other ancient translations or excerpts/quotations (the Targums, for instance). |
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| Fesarius | Aug 19 2005, 01:45 PM Post #33 |
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Admiral
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Luthien, Gotcha. The Mall can certainly be graphic.
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| ~Luthien~ | Aug 19 2005, 01:47 PM Post #34 |
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Little Sister Of Sistertrek
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^^^ Ooh yes
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| Dandandat | Aug 19 2005, 03:19 PM Post #35 |
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Time to put something here
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I use this definition to come to the conclusion that I am atheistic and to show that atheism does not need to be a matter of faith (which then can turn atheism into its own religion).
While I do not actively believe in the non-existence of deities (ie I do not actively deny the existence of god because its not important to me) I am in a state of being without theistic beliefs. Atheism need not be based in the belief that god defiantly does not exist (which requires a decision based on faith alone because the idea can not be proven ture or fules), it can aslo be based in the complete absence of faith. |
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| ImpulseEngine | Aug 19 2005, 03:28 PM Post #36 |
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Admiral
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Actually, that sounds precisely like agnosticism. |
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| who | Aug 19 2005, 03:28 PM Post #37 |
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Have light saber. Will travel.
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IE, You may be the only one that I have seen do this. How do you include quotes from two different messages where both have the person, date, and time are on top? I would appreciate the help on how to do this. I do not see how the thought that we are keeping ourselves out of Heaven translates into believing purely on faith is the key to entering heaven. Perhaps we simply begin to study how and why we are keeping ourselves out of Heaven? In regards to the second part, I think I see what you are saying. It is somewhere between the pure atheist and the pure agnostic? You think that God does not exist but are not certain? |
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| who | Aug 19 2005, 03:32 PM Post #38 |
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Have light saber. Will travel.
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Luthien, I believe that each choice we make is either for or against God. These choices keep us out of Heaven. |
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| Fesarius | Aug 19 2005, 03:40 PM Post #39 |
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Admiral
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Who, I would agree with the first sentence. However, I'm not sure about the second, since I cannot know the ultimate decision God will make regarding this. After all, we do know that God's mind can be changed. The passage in 2 Peter 3:9 which talks about God's not willing that any should perish has intrigued me for years. If God's will cannot be undone (which I do not believe is true either logically or epistemologically), then none would perish. But it's an interesting question nevertheless. |
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| gvok | Aug 19 2005, 03:46 PM Post #40 |
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Unregistered
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Does this mean Fesarius does not believe in predestination? |
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| Fesarius | Aug 19 2005, 03:51 PM Post #41 |
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Admiral
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^^^ Fesarius believes that God gave us free will. God does not demand that we believe in him. It's a choice, for example.
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| gvok | Aug 19 2005, 03:52 PM Post #42 |
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Unregistered
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Salvation by works? |
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| Fesarius | Aug 19 2005, 03:53 PM Post #43 |
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Admiral
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^^^ Why are you interested in what I believe? |
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| Dandandat | Aug 19 2005, 03:54 PM Post #44 |
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Time to put something here
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Not really, agnosticism is a question of “knowledge”. Do I know if god exists or not and can I know if god exists or not. Theism and Atheism is a question of belief and faith. Do I believe that god exists and do I have faith, or Do I believe god does not exist and am I faithless. An atheist can from a combination of the above explanation. I can be faithless period and not form a belief at all and be called an athirst (which is how I see my self). I can believe that god defiantly does not exist, which requires faith because I can not prove that position unequivocally, and be called an athirst. Further since the measuring stick between the two are different one can be both agnostic and theistic/atheistic at the same time. If you take a theistic person who has faith that god exists, they may still be an agnostic because they feel they can not truly know if good exits or not (though they have faith that he does). On the flip side you can take a atheist (a person who is faithless) who can also be agnostic at the same time, though they are faithless they think they can not know if god exists or not. Here is something that is a little more clear then I am being
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| ImpulseEngine | Aug 19 2005, 03:56 PM Post #45 |
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Admiral
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It's kind of a pain to do, but... First, I start a reply by quoting the first one. Then I type something and preview it (the typing is only because you can't preview until you type a reply). Then go down to the part where you can modify what you typed and you will see the quote there with the person and time. I copy just the quote into memory (select it and press CTRL-C). Then I back out and start a reply to the second one by quoting it. I then type my real reply to the second one and preview it. At that point I can paste the first quote above it (CTRL-V) and type my real reply to it. I only bother with that thought when it's two separate posts. If it's the same person and the same post, there's no point. By itself, it doesn't. However, I thought you were replying to what I had said and, in that context, it would. I don't believe we can possibly keep ourselves out of heaven unless heaven has some meaning other than the traditional Christian perspective. If there is a God who decides whether we go to heaven or not, then it is by that God's rules that it is determined. We might decide whether to follow those rules, but since God set the rules, it must be God that decides whether we followed them enough to go to heaven. |
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No but i mean somewhat less graphic.
1:50 PM Jul 11