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| Do you believe in hell?; Please read below. | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Aug 19 2005, 06:05 AM (1,135 Views) | |
| ImpulseEngine | Aug 19 2005, 11:57 AM Post #16 |
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Admiral
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Fesarius, In Catholicism I was taught that God is omniscient, omnipotent, all-loving, and the only perfect being. The second and fourth of those removes the possibility of jealousy (as well as anger that we commonly see in the Bible). That very point played a factor in my initially questioning my faith. |
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| Dandandat | Aug 19 2005, 12:12 PM Post #17 |
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Time to put something here
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If god its self is jealous, why did it command us not to be jealous? If Jealousy is so undesirable that it impacted at lest one (if not more) of the ten highest commandments, how can god be perfect if it is jealous? I know you are not trying to convince me of gods existence, and I in turn am not trying to cast doubt upon you. I am interested in how you reconcile the above. |
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| Fesarius | Aug 19 2005, 12:14 PM Post #18 |
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Admiral
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Dandandat, I reconcile issues such as what you posted above with increased faith and trust in God. I do not attempt to explain or understand the unexplainable or that which cannot be comprehended. |
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| Fesarius | Aug 19 2005, 12:24 PM Post #19 |
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Admiral
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IE, I think what you posted has more to do with universalism than atheism. I think in atheism one can ask about 'works of atheism' for persons who intentionally disbelieve in the God described in Christian and/or Jewish scriptures. Or perhaps for these same works for persons who intentionally disbelieve in the rationality of the faith(s) espoused by believers in those faiths (Christianity and Judaism). But I wonder what 'works' might specifically and appropriately be called 'atheistic'-- building an Un-Church? Absent the risk of hellfire, would a person who doesn't yet believe in the God described by the Bible--or worshipped in the assemblies--would such a person have a good reason to review this belief (or un-belief)? For me, the answer was yes. I think to be an atheist (more than just saying, "I don't believe in a god or gods") takes work, if one is truly a practicing atheist. Most people I have met in my travels who claim to be atheists are not (IMO) really atheists at all. I was one for about ten years before I rejected it as a possibility for my life. Would someone be better off knowing that prime numbers exist, or would it be acceptable and perhaps preferable to go from the cradle to the grave never knowing about these unusual toys of the imagination? I think most people would agree that it is better to align one's knowledge with reality than otherwise. If 'God' (as referred to above) is real, then a person is probably better off knowing this than not knowing it. More later.
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| psyfi | Aug 19 2005, 12:25 PM Post #20 |
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psyfi
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Yes, and there are the most magnificent and wonderful things to purchase but nobody has any money. |
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| psyfi | Aug 19 2005, 12:30 PM Post #21 |
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psyfi
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According to Dr. Lamsa's translation of the Bible from the ancient Peshitta text, the translation of Exodus 34:14 reads, "For you shall worship no other god; for the Lord whose name is zealous, is a zealous God." Lamsa points out that the word "Tanana" in Aramaic means both "zealous," and "jealous." However, it is noted that in this particular context, it means not that God was jealous of idols, but rather that He was zealous to keep his people from worshiping idols. |
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| Dandandat | Aug 19 2005, 12:35 PM Post #22 |
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Time to put something here
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I see, so are you saying your use of the world jealous (“He is a jealous God”) may not be an accurate description of what you are trying to describe, but is the closest (if still not very close) thing we as humans can equate to it. That the reconciliation is that the jealousy you and your faith describe about god is not the same thing that is prohibited in such commandments as “Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's house”, that its only because of our limited understanding of existence that make it appear to be close or the same? |
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| Fesarius | Aug 19 2005, 12:38 PM Post #23 |
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Admiral
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Psyfi, With all due respect, I don't accept Dr. Lamsa as the final authority on biblical translation. Isn't Dr. Lamsa the scholar whom has been shown to be a fraud in matters concerning the translation of Greek and Aramaic texts? I believe the Way International used his work for their defense a few times, but I could be in error. I have tremendous respect for Dr. Bruce Metzger, whose works I have read over the years, and whose works I have found to stand up to the greatest scholarly scrutiny. Have a peek at this. Remember, I'm just asking the question regarding Dr. Lamsa--I'm not attacking you personally. http://www.aramaicpeshitta.com/Online_Vers...y_deception.htm Here are two more links that I found interesting. http://www.bibletexts.com/qa/qa033b.htm http://www.forananswer.org/Luke/Luke23_43.htm |
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| ImpulseEngine | Aug 19 2005, 12:38 PM Post #24 |
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Admiral
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Fesarius, You are, of course correct, which is why I usually try to phrase it "I consider myself an atheist". But since I maintain an open mind, I am not a true atheist in the strictest sense. An accurate description of my position is this: I don't believe in any God. However, I do believe in the possibility that some God may exist. Thus far, I have not heard any description of a God that meets my logical and intellectual satisfaction. However, if I did hear one, I would strongly consider it. That said, I also completely expect that I will never hear it because I truly believe there is no God. By the way, in response to this: That is the essence of faith. And it is the choice I was confronted with back when I made it. The choice was between accepting a whole lot of things purely on faith even though they made no logical sense to me or else rejecting them on the basis that they made no logical sense because they were in fact not true. I chose the latter in part because faith itself makes no logical sense to me. A big question for me is why any God would want us to believe out of faith. What's wrong with standing before us and proving its/his/her existence? That is one major hurdle I could not get past. |
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| Fesarius | Aug 19 2005, 12:42 PM Post #25 |
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Admiral
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Dandandat, The 'limited understanding' phrase is key.
IE, I understand, and I agree with much of that, as you probably know.
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| who | Aug 19 2005, 01:13 PM Post #26 |
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Have light saber. Will travel.
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Another thought is that we are keeping ourselves out of Heaven. |
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| who | Aug 19 2005, 01:27 PM Post #27 |
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Have light saber. Will travel.
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IE, I find this contradictory. In the first part you describe yourself as an agnostic (not knowing if God exists or not), while in the second part you say you believe God does not exist (atheist). I find the atheist position hard to defend because there is no way to prove that. It is a matter of faith. I find it difficult to accept things just on faith. In addition to many other factors it must make sense to my intellect. "A Course in Miracles" is the only book I have read that explains most everything and makes logical sense to me. |
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| psyfi | Aug 19 2005, 01:28 PM Post #28 |
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psyfi
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It's okay Fes. I have been known to be incorrect a time or two. Thanks for straightening me out. |
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| psyfi | Aug 19 2005, 01:31 PM Post #29 |
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psyfi
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This thought I agree with a hundred percent. |
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| ~Luthien~ | Aug 19 2005, 01:36 PM Post #30 |
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Little Sister Of Sistertrek
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ehehehehe No but i mean somewhat less graphic.Like that people finally get to see what theyve done wrong in life and get to realize that they should have chosen for God and such,i dunno...
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No but i mean somewhat less graphic.
1:50 PM Jul 11