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| Howard Dean is just out there! | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Aug 12 2005, 07:37 PM (221 Views) | |
| 24thcenstfan | Aug 12 2005, 07:37 PM Post #1 |
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Something Wicked This Fae Comes
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Dean works to energize state's Democratic Party
(Bold Added) Dean is just out there. I am not even right wing (or Republican), and I take offense to that (re: the bolded comments). He appears to be trying to compliment New England Republicans (ahem, kiss butt), but ends up insulting Republicans everywhere else.
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| 24thcenstfan | Aug 12 2005, 07:37 PM Post #2 |
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Something Wicked This Fae Comes
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I honestly don’t think he or the DNC knows who the party base is. Dean needs to form his own party called ‘Kooks R Us.’ Because that is what he sounds like when he rants on the way he does in the linked article. Kooky! |
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| psyfi | Aug 12 2005, 08:04 PM Post #3 |
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psyfi
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I think that the party needs to get more moderate activists in its ranks since it is the activists that are doing things like putting Dean as the head of the DNC and you are very right, this guy is way, way out there. |
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| Dandandat | Aug 12 2005, 08:10 PM Post #4 |
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Time to put something here
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The Democratic party is still reeling form the last 5 years of upset. The problem is that instead of putting their ear to the group and hearing what the people want, they keep with the old tactics that caused the last 5 years of upset. The Democratic base has to take back the Democratic party before it can take bake the white house. |
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| Swidden | Aug 12 2005, 10:21 PM Post #5 |
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Adm. Gadfly-at-large; Provisional wRench-fly at large
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What is it with him? I'm reading the article and basically agreeing with him as far as his being on message goes (YES! The Democratic Party needs to define itself and not let the Republicans/Karl Rove do it for them!). Then he goes makes his remark about New England Republicans vs. Most Republicans and completely shoots himself in the foot again! If people want to pick on President Bush for the way he butchers grammar, then Dean is most definitely his Democratic counterpart... |
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| who | Aug 12 2005, 11:55 PM Post #6 |
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Have light saber. Will travel.
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I do not know how accurate the exit polls are but the number one reason for a person's vote was moral values. The dems appear to support homosexual marrage, appear anti-Christian, and want unlimited abortion on demand (including partial birth abortion) without parental notification. I think this is out of step with the majority of Americans today. On the other hand, main stream Americans are opposed to Bush's privatization plan for Social Security, are turning against the Iraq war, and want the borders secured and the illegals deported. The dems have an opening here. The dems should stop supporting homosexual marriage, support Christians, and take a moderate approach on abortion. The republicans should state they do not favor privatization since Americans do not want it, succeed in the Iraq war to the point that terrorist attacks are much less & Americans are not being killed any longer, and secure the border. I do not think the dems can change because that is there base. It is not too late for the republicans to change. Since the country is so evenly divided, I suspect the near future races to be very close and either party could win. |
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| Dandandat | Aug 12 2005, 11:59 PM Post #7 |
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Time to put something here
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How do you know main stream Americans are opposed to Bush's privatization plan for Social Security? |
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| who | Aug 13 2005, 12:03 AM Post #8 |
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Have light saber. Will travel.
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From the polls. As I recall, over 60% of Americans are against it. The more Bush talks about it, the more he drops in the polls. |
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| Dandandat | Aug 13 2005, 12:23 AM Post #9 |
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Time to put something here
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I have tried to look for information on this, do you have any to provide? Edit - check that I fond this ----> http://www.rockthevote.com/pdf/soc_sec_pr_acc.pdf
It would seem there is two things going on here and the results you are referring to are what comes out only after people are exposed to the "consequences" of socially security privatization. But how accurate can that be when these "consequences" are hotly debated on whether they are true or not? . Before they are exposed to these “consequences” the polls show that about half of America is for the plan. For example if I where to take a poll asking people "Would you be in favor of me giving you ten dollars", I can assume I would get a favorable outcome. If I then asked "would you still be in favor of me giving you ten dollars if it means I get to punch you in the face" I can then assume I would get an unfavorable out come. In both cases their outcomes are accurate when discussing each question individually, but I should not be able to use the second questions results to say that most people I polled are not in favor of me giving them ten dollars (the first question). It seems to me that these polls on privatization of social sectary are doing just that. |
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| who | Aug 13 2005, 07:42 AM Post #10 |
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Have light saber. Will travel.
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Dandandat, this suggests that 60-80% of informed Americans are opposed to private accounts. This is consistent with what I have seen on the news. The more Bush tried to push the accounts, the more it was discussed, the more people became opposed to them, and the more his ratings dropped. I think we have discussed this topic before and it is somewhat off-topic here. |
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| Dandandat | Aug 13 2005, 01:13 PM Post #11 |
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Time to put something here
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I know, I did not say that it didn’t. I question the manner in which the questions have been asked in the polls and how the conclusions are drawn. It would seem that your results only manifest when people are told of the “consequences” to privatization, but these consequences are highly debated on their truthfulness. With out speaking of the Consequences (which are debatable) it would seem that half of America is for the plan. So for your idea that 60-70% of Americans are against the plan to be true, you would first have to validate the possibility of the consequences told to the people polled. Other wise you aren't asking about Bush specific plan but generic plan that would result in these consequences which may or may not be repetitive of Bush’s plan. For example - I am for privatization of social security. This means if asked the first set of questions of simply whether I am for privatization of social security or not, I would answer For (just as 50% of Americas have). But I would not be for a privatization plan that resulted in shifting the cost to my children, So when asked whether I am for a privatization plan that resulted in this “consequence” I would answer Against. Now that said I do not believe Bush’s plan will result in this “consequence” so it would be wrong for a poll analyzer to use my answer to the second question as an indication that I am against Bush’s privatization plan, but form what I have read here it would seem this is exactly what is happening. If a poll analyzer wanted to use the results of question two to impact question one, It would be prudent to ask a third question of whether the polled believes that the “consequences” mentioned in question two represent the true consequences to the plan asked about in question one. That, form what I can tell, is not being asked. |
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| who | Aug 13 2005, 02:02 PM Post #12 |
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Have light saber. Will travel.
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Dandandat, I understand what you are saying about polls. I think another indicator that this is not popular with the public is that Congress is not pushing private accounts. In Congress there has been some discussion about making Social Security solvent (private accounts would make Social Security less solvent). |
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| Dandandat | Aug 13 2005, 02:07 PM Post #13 |
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Time to put something here
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That would be a better indicator, it would seem, rightly or wrongly, the idea has fallen out of favor. What I regret however is that with all the mud slinging the issue of fixing social sectary will be once again pushed away and nothing will get done until it finally crashes. The thing is the 40+ year olds in this country (which make up a great deal people in the fight to do anything about it) will get there’s leaving the burden on my generation and the next alone. |
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| who | Aug 13 2005, 02:23 PM Post #14 |
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Have light saber. Will travel.
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Dandandat, I think the one thing Bush has done (to his political detriment) is raise the issue. From what I have heard, Medicare and Mediaide are in much worse situations. I also understand that these same problems are much worse in other countries including those countries in Europe. I think that terrorism, Iraq, and our southern border have taken the forefront in politics now. I do wish that the politicians would spend more energy in these and other issues instead of partisan politics. |
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| ds9074 | Aug 13 2005, 03:05 PM Post #15 |
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Admiral
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What about telling people the potential negative consequence of failing to reform the social security system. Interesting if that increased those in favour. |
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Dean is just out there. I am not even right wing (or Republican), and I take offense to that (re: the bolded comments). He appears to be trying to compliment New England Republicans (ahem, kiss butt), but ends up insulting Republicans everywhere else.

2:07 PM Jul 11