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Cleric compares Blair to Hitler
Topic Started: Aug 6 2005, 06:21 AM (287 Views)
ds9074
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Admiral
Quote:
 
BBC News

A Muslim cleric says there are "similarities" between new powers to tackle Islamist extremism and Hitler's demonisation of the Jews.

On Friday Tony Blair proposed measures to exclude foreign nationals who come to the UK to preach hate and to close places where terrorism is condoned.

Dr Mohammed Naseem made the comments on BBC Radio 4's Today programme.

"I see the similarities... I am saying these are dangerous times and we must take note of this," he said

"He [Hitler] was democratically elected and gradually he created a bogey identity, that is, the Jewish people, and posed to the Germans that they were a threat to the country"

Last week Birmingham MP Khalid Mahmood called for Dr Naseem to resign after he questioned whether Muslims were responsible for the 7 July atrocities and suggested al-Qaeda does not exist.

He made the comments after terror suspect Yasin Hassan Omar was arrested in the Small Heath area of the city in connection with 21 July attempted bombings.

Mr Mahmood said Dr Naseem had brought his role into disrepute but the chairman retaliated by saying 4,000 worshippers had voted for him to stay.

But following the anti-terrorism proposals unveiled on Friday Dr Naseem told the BBC that he saw "similarities" between Mr Blair's approach to Britain's Muslim community and Hitler's demonisation of Jews early in his time as German Chancellor.

"I think he is not very wise in the way he did it. I am saying he is not handling the situation wisely, because he says one thing at one time and another at another," he said.

"He [Hitler] was democratically elected and gradually he created a bogey identity, that is, the Jewish people, and posed to the Germans that they were a threat to the country.

"On that basis, he started a process of elimination of Jewish people.

"I see the similarities. Everything moves step by step. I am saying these are dangerous times and we must take note of this."

He added that the measures proposed by Mr Blair would be "appropriate" if there was evidence that foreign nationals were in the country fomenting terrorism.

"A government is entitled to take measures to safeguard the country and the nation, but the problem is that the government speaks with so many tongues that one is confused.

"Up to last week, we were given to believe that the terrorists were home-grown, 'clean-skinned' and Muslim.

"The measures being taken are against those who come to this country who are asylum-seekers and they are supposed to be misusing or abusing hospitality.

"Mr Blair told the Cabinet last week that people blame anything but faith, including poverty, discrimination and the war on terror for the bombings, so the message seemed to be that they are blaming everything else, but they should be blaming faith."

Dr Naseem stood for the Respect-Unity Coalition in Birmingham Perry Barr during the recent general election in Mr Mahmood's constituency and received 2,173 votes.

As part of the anti-terrorism measures unveiled on Friday, Mr Blair announced a ban on two radical Islamist organisations, Hizb ut-Tahrir and al-Muhajiroun, even though their leadership insist that they do not advocate violence in the UK.
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ds9074
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I'm getting just a little bit annoyed with this attitude from some Muslims.

Firstly our security services in searching for Islamic terrorists are likely to look in the Islamic community. Thats obvious and common sense. What does this guy want the police to do? For ever raid they make on a Muslims home they must make a raid on a Christians home, not because they are suspicious, but just to balance things out?!

Secondly as for this nonsense about the Prime Minister demonising the Muslim community. Please read what the Prime Minister has actually said. As recently as his news conference yesterday he said;

Quote:
 
The Muslim community, I should emphasise, have been and are our partners in this endeavour. Much of the insistence on strong action to weed out extremism is coming most vigorously from Muslims themselves, deeply concerned lest the activities of the fanatical fringe contaminate the good reputation of the mainstream Muslim community in this country.

and

Quote:
 
I want to make it clear yet again that this is not in any way whatever aimed at the decent law-abiding Muslim community of Great Britain. We know that this fringe of extremism does not truly represent Islam. We know British Muslims, in general, abhor the actions of the extremists. We acknowledge once again Muslim contribution to our country and welcome it. We welcome those who visit our country from abroad in peace, welcome those who know that in this country the respect and tolerance towards others which we believe in, is the surest guarantee of freedom and progress for people of all religious faiths.

Source: http://www.pm.gov.uk/output/Page8041.asp

I just think someone needs to say this face to face with this man and other like him, preferably on air, because at the moment the media attitude across the spectrum of news organistations is making me :realmad:. Why it is that when a Muslim like this man is being interviewed the media treat them carefully and with a lot of respect and give their views virtually no criticism. Yet get a member of HM Government on to support the Prime Minister and they get torn limb from limb. :shrug:
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psyfi
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ds9074
Aug 6 2005, 06:32 AM
I just think someone needs to say this face to face with this man and other like him, preferably on air, because at the moment the media attitude across the spectrum of news organistations is making me  :realmad:. Why it is that when a Muslim like this man is being interviewed the media treat them carefully and with a lot of respect and give their views virtually no criticism. Yet get a member of HM Government on to support the Prime Minister and they get torn limb from limb.  :shrug:

This is the 50 million dollar question and I hope that many keep on asking it until the media decides to be more balanced. I think it also shows what many on this board have been trying to get across for a long, long time which is that the support of the Muslim community for these radical Islamics is a lot stronger than people think. This guy's words were peppered with concern for what had been done but when you analyze the essence of what he was saying, it clearly was "Don't do what works."
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Fesarius
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Why it is that when a Muslim like this man is being interviewed the media treat them carefully and with a lot of respect and give their views virtually no criticism.

DS,

From my perspective, this is par for the course with our media. In other words, business as usual.
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ds9074
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Fesarius
Aug 6 2005, 02:22 PM
Quote:
 
Why it is that when a Muslim like this man is being interviewed the media treat them carefully and with a lot of respect and give their views virtually no criticism.

DS,

From my perspective, this is par for the course with our media. In other words, business as usual.

But it shouldnt be. Either the Prime Minister and his Government should be entitled to the same light treatment or everyone should be subject to a critical analysis. I favour the second because I think that would be more healthy.

The other thing I meant to say in my opening post was that as far as I know the Jewish community in 1930s Germany was not committing mass acts of terrorism killing literally thousands of people. Therefore the threat in that case was bogus. In this case the threat faced is very real and we have seen it in London, Madrid, New York, Bali etc.
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Fesarius
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But it shouldnt be.

DS,

I agree with this statement 100%. But it *is* this way, and there are many things in this world that ought not to be as they are. I submit that there is a much greater power at work which causes things to be as badly as they are, despite our best efforts to change them for the better. Okay, I'm straying off topic. ;)
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Minuet
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DS9074 - It's good to see you finally come around and see the bias in the BBC that I have mentioned before. (And of course in other media sources as well)

Did you see my comments in the story you posted a couple of days ago about the attack in the occupied territories? You haven't commented over there so I was not sure if you saw my statements, or Psyfi's.

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somerled
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So no one is disturbed by this particular ethnic minority being persecuted and targeted (emass) because of the behaviour a very small number of it's members ?

How is this different to the events that happened in Germany and Austria in the early and mid 1030s ?

Again - I detect more paranoia .

And it is being played on by shows such a 24 (which I don't watch by the way and demonises mulsims) and the commercial media Today's TV in Newcastle NSW get a load of the crap that's on PRIME tonight.

Come to think of NBN3 and TEN and SBS are also a writeoff tonight . Looks like I'll be watching ABC tonight or catching up on my literature survey and reading.
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Wichita
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somerled
Aug 7 2005, 05:48 AM
So no one is disturbed by this particular ethnic minority being persecuted and targeted (emass) because of the behaviour a very small number of it's members ?

How is this different to the events that happened in Germany and Austria in the early and mid 1030s ?

Again - I detect more paranoia .


:headscratch:

Actually, people in this thread have said the opposite. Didn't you notice?

:headscratch:

People in this thread have been concerned that the Muslim community not be persecuted for the actions of a few of its members, but have also expressed the concern that ethnic groups whose members have done absolutely nothing wrong not be persecuted for the actions of a few members of a different ethnic group.

That is very different from what you are claiming.

I doubt you would find it fair - if an English speaking American had committed a crime - that members of all English speaking nations were arbitrarily stopped and searched, but the police were prohibited from stopping and searching Americans regardless if they demonstrated that they may be prepared to commit the same crime.

Somerled
 
How is this different to the events that happened in Germany and Austria in the early and mid 1030s ?


DS already answered this:

DS9074
 
]The other thing I meant to say in my opening post was that as far as I know the Jewish community in 1930s Germany was not committing mass acts of terrorism killing literally thousands of people. Therefore the threat in that case was bogus. In this case the threat faced is very real and we have seen it in London, Madrid, New York, Bali etc.






It IS a difficult thing - to fairly protect our cities - but it is not just the "fault" of the authorities trying to do their job. As long as these terrorists are given overt and covert support from their own people, then we will struggle with this question. I personally find it odd that they continue to get this support despite the fact they continue to target their own people for execution.

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ds9074
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^^^
Well I agree that. Its a difficult job being a leader of a nation at any time and in these days of trial particularly so.
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captain_proton_au
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somerled
Aug 7 2005, 12:48 AM

How is this different to the events that happened in Germany and Austria in the early and mid 1930s ?

To coin a phrase - "What a pantload!"
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ds9074
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captain_proton_au
Aug 7 2005, 02:21 PM
somerled
Aug 7 2005, 12:48 AM

How is this different to the events that happened in Germany and Austria in the early and mid 1930s ?

To coin a phrase - "What a pantload!"

Well someone had to say it.
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somerled
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Wichita
Aug 7 2005, 08:43 PM
somerled
Aug 7 2005, 05:48 AM
So no one is disturbed by this particular ethnic minority being persecuted and targeted (emass) because of the behaviour a very small number of it's members ?

How is this different to the events that happened in Germany and Austria in the early and mid 1030s ?

Again - I detect more paranoia .


:headscratch:

Actually, people in this thread have said the opposite. Didn't you notice?

:headscratch:

People in this thread have been concerned that the Muslim community not be persecuted for the actions of a few of its members, but have also expressed the concern that ethnic groups whose members have done absolutely nothing wrong not be persecuted for the actions of a few members of a different ethnic group.

That is very different from what you are claiming.

I doubt you would find it fair - if an English speaking American had committed a crime - that members of all English speaking nations were arbitrarily stopped and searched, but the police were prohibited from stopping and searching Americans regardless if they demonstrated that they may be prepared to commit the same crime.

Somerled
 
How is this different to the events that happened in Germany and Austria in the early and mid 1030s ?


DS already answered this:

DS9074
 
]The other thing I meant to say in my opening post was that as far as I know the Jewish community in 1930s Germany was not committing mass acts of terrorism killing literally thousands of people. Therefore the threat in that case was bogus. In this case the threat faced is very real and we have seen it in London, Madrid, New York, Bali etc.






It IS a difficult thing - to fairly protect our cities - but it is not just the "fault" of the authorities trying to do their job. As long as these terrorists are given overt and covert support from their own people, then we will struggle with this question. I personally find it odd that they continue to get this support despite the fact they continue to target their own people for execution.

So a handful of extremists who happen to be members of small religious / ethnic minority are prepared to go to any lengths are used as an excuse to persecute and harass the rest .

What will that achieve ? apart from alienating the very people who are best placed to help and stopping the criminals , and maginalising these people further.

:way2go:

CP and DS - you can disagree , but look around at places where minorities have been persecuted and harassed and see where that leads.
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captain_proton_au
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somerled
Aug 7 2005, 10:26 AM


CP and DS - you can disagree , but look around at places where minorities have been persecuted and harassed and see where that leads.

Once again you've dug yourself into a hole you cant get out of, you said there is no differnce between the current situation in the UK and Nazi Germany.



[XTREME Sarcasm] You're absolutely right, its only a matter of time before we start marching Muslims off to concentration camps and shooting them en masse in the streets[/XTREME Sarcasm]
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Fesarius
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So no one is disturbed by this particular ethnic minority being persecuted and targeted (emass) because of the behaviour a very small number of it's members ?

Somerled,

I believe people are concerned, but doing something about it is nearly impossible.
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