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Muslims and Radical Islam; Yet again
Topic Started: Aug 4 2005, 08:52 AM (340 Views)
who
Have light saber. Will travel.
This topic has been discussed in a couple of polls in the past. I think the polls are difficult because there is so much variation by country. I recently saw the poll results done in Briton. 52% consider themselves Muslims first and UK citizens second. 26% had little or no loyalty to the UK.

It seems that the vast majority of citizens of Saudi Arabia are part of Radical Islam as that is their national religion. In recent local democratic elections there Radical Islam won.

I wonder what the climate of the Muslim community is in the US and Canada?
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Dr. Noah
Sistertrek's Asian Correspondant
Well, we could use the Patriot Act to see what they're reading in the library, and search thier harddrives for information without a warrant or thier knowledge.
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Fesarius
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Admiral
^^^
Noah,

The second part of what you wrote could occur, but the first part would not provide them with the information of what is being read in a library.
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Dr. Noah
Sistertrek's Asian Correspondant
The Patriot Act allows the government to find out what you checked out at the library without warrant/subpoena, and without your knowledge.
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Fesarius
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^^^
No it does not. The library in question must *allow* (decide) for the records to become known, and the Library Bill of Rights, as well as the right to privacy and confidentiality of patron records prohibits this from occurring. Subpoenas have been refused at libraries, and IMO will continue to be refused when the circumstances warrant it.
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psyfi
psyfi
Dr. Noah
Aug 4 2005, 09:05 AM
The Patriot Act allows the government to find out what you checked out at the library without warrant/subpoena, and without your knowledge.

Can they do this with anybody or do they have to have reason to believe that you might be a terrorist which they take to a judge? I am really unclear about these provisions.
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Dr. Noah
Sistertrek's Asian Correspondant
The term for terrorist in the Patriot Act is broad enough to include me. It's broad enough to include nearly everyone.
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Fesarius
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Noah,

Okay, I stand corrected (meaning I was wrong). Here is what I have been able to find:

The following source includes the provisions allowing for that of which Psyfi speaks, I believe.

http://www.eff.org/patriot/

This is key, and it is what cleared things up for me: Federal law trumps state and local law, in almost all instances. I think it would be a stretch for me to assume that a circumstance involving a patron/student at my library would be an exception.

The American Library Association (et al.) has been fighting it, but not winning. The Senate version of the PATRIOT Renewal bill includes a less overbroad provision, from what I have learned this morning.

www.ala.org/ala/oif/ifissues/usapatriotact.htm

My personal opinion on this is:

Several of the provisions of the Act in question were/are unconsitutional idiocy. While I understand a need for temporarily expansive federal investigative powers in perceived times of war, these should be temporary and fact-specific. And, they should go before a judge in nearly all cases. I am with the EFF and the ACLU on this one, and that is not easy for me to admit.
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Dr. Noah
Sistertrek's Asian Correspondant
I have always known you to be a rational person Fes. That is why I am not surprised to see you with the ACLU on this issue.
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Fesarius
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Noah,

There was a lot of buzz around here during the creation of the Patriot Act. Our Dean was dead set against releasing library records of any kind. Two of the key phrases in your post above are "without warrant/subpoena, and without your knowledge." So, if they want to do it, they can.
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Dr. Noah
Sistertrek's Asian Correspondant
Welcome to 1984. :no:
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Fesarius
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Noah,

Speaking of radical Islam, did you know that there is a TAS episode entitled The Jihad? I haven't seen this one in years, and don't know what it is about. It may have nothing to do with the Jihad in the modern sense.
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Dr. Noah
Sistertrek's Asian Correspondant
It's interesting to note too that the word Jihad is often used in the book and the movie Dune.
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Fesarius
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Is there anyone who can give us an accurate definition of the term 'Jihad'? Perhaps that has already been done in another thread?
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Dr. Noah
Sistertrek's Asian Correspondant
Is the Arabic word for "holy war" as far as I understand it.
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