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| Can AI ever be possessed of a soul? | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jul 30 2005, 09:18 AM (255 Views) | |
| psyfi | Jul 30 2005, 09:18 AM Post #1 |
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psyfi
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In BSG, the Cylons appear to have driven themselves homicidally insane with the question of whether they have a soul. Do you think it is possible that if mankind were to create a self-aware artificial intelligence, it would become an entity with a soul or spirit? |
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| somerled | Jul 30 2005, 09:29 AM Post #2 |
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Admiral MacDonald RN
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No more than animals or humans can. If an AI ever became sentient and was programmed , or learnt , about the idea of souls , it might believe it has one. |
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| DEFIANT | Jul 30 2005, 10:29 AM Post #3 |
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Commodore
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I think it can if it learns enough. |
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| Swidden | Jul 30 2005, 10:32 AM Post #4 |
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Adm. Gadfly-at-large; Provisional wRench-fly at large
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It might depend on just how sentient/cognizant the AI might be. If it begins asking itself existential questions, but does not receive satisfactory answers directly it might be left to speculate. However, I think there would need to be an emotional component-- desire. The question then becomes could it ever be possible for an AI to have complex emotions. If that came to pass, anything becomes possible for it to believe. Here's the rub though. We, apparently, do not have the ability to create a soul. So while a machine might believe itself to have one, as far as we know only God possesses the ability to imbue a body with a soul. Which would leave this under the purview of faith. |
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| psyfi | Jul 30 2005, 10:42 AM Post #5 |
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psyfi
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Swidden, I wonder if the creation of an emotive mind isn't, in fact, the creation of a soul. We could still say that God, as Prime Cause, is the source of this soul and He but gave us the opportunities to gain knowledge of how to do it. |
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| psyfi | Jul 30 2005, 10:43 AM Post #6 |
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psyfi
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Do you think that the uncertainty regarding this notion could trouble it as profoundly as it has the Cylons? |
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| Swidden | Jul 30 2005, 10:55 AM Post #7 |
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Adm. Gadfly-at-large; Provisional wRench-fly at large
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Psyfi, Have you ever read James Blish's "A Case of Conscience"? It is a similar idea to this, though with alien life in place of Artifcial... |
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| psyfi | Jul 30 2005, 11:51 AM Post #8 |
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psyfi
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No, I haven't read the story but I went online to check it out. It sounds really good. I will definitely try to get a copy of it. Although, just from reading the review, it seems that it is humans in that story that are doing the grappling with faith questions whereas in BSG, it is the machines that are having the real problem figuring it all out. |
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| Swidden | Jul 30 2005, 05:18 PM Post #9 |
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Adm. Gadfly-at-large; Provisional wRench-fly at large
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^^^ True. In "A Case of Conscience," the Lithians (the aliens) are essentially an intelligent atheistic species and seem to have never gotten kicked out of their version of the Garden of Eden. Simply substitute the humans for the Cylons. If there is any chance that you might read the book I won't spoil it for you. However, you might also be interested in some of Blish's other works which were also rather spiritually oriented (That is apart from his being the guy that handled the novelizations of the old TOS episodes). |
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| psyfi | Jul 30 2005, 06:55 PM Post #10 |
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psyfi
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I will read the book when and if I can get it as it came out in 1959. But do feel free to quote or discuss anything that pertains to the discussion regardless. I have read Blish but this was long ago in a galaxy far away. Nothing stands out immediately except for, of course, SPOCK MUST DIE. Is there anything in particular that you would recommend to me? |
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| Swidden | Jul 31 2005, 10:15 AM Post #11 |
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Adm. Gadfly-at-large; Provisional wRench-fly at large
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There are a couple of other stories that are tied to the previous novel I mentioned. "Black Easter" and "Day After Judgement." There is also his "Okie Cities" novels. In part they are about whole cities being lifted into space. But it is more about the fact that the inhabitants have prolonged the human life span to last for several centuries. I believe the series was collected in a volume called "Cities in Flight." |
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| psyfi | Jul 31 2005, 11:35 AM Post #12 |
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psyfi
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Thanks! I seem to recall the Okie novels but if I read them, it was so long ago that they would seem fresh and new to me. I have always been fascinated by the extension of the human life cycle novels. I loved "Norstrilia," by Cordwainer Smith which dealt with this idea and access to the drug that keeps us living forever and a day. But then again, I love everything that was ever written by Cordwainer Smith. |
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| Franko | Jul 31 2005, 09:18 PM Post #13 |
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Shower Moderator
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I guess Data falls into that category. I think there's a lot of people who would like to think that "Data goes to heaven". I suppose for some religions that believe in reincarnation it's not much of a leap. There are some who believe that ants, bears, scorpions, and even plants have some kind of "soul". I suppose that a self-aware entity to even ask itself that question might be a hint. If we built an AI system whose knowledge and abilities began to increase exponentially, it might even surpass the mundane conciousness and abilities of humans. Frank Herbert explored this in an interesting novel called "The Jesus Incident". Some may argue that only an organic living creature can have a soul. But what would happen if we eventually gain the ability to "upload" the human mind into a cyberspace medium? Since it is conversion and not replication then one could argue that it is still distinctly the same person; soul and all, but devoid of their physical body. But what about the ability to choose good from evil ? If an AI entity could move beyond it's programming and develop free will, might this not qualify it for soul-i-tude? Beyond that, what do we use as a measuring stick ? I'm certain that if we met another alien civilization who were self-aware and sentient we'd concede the likelihood that they had "souls". But what is the soul, anyway? Is it really some magical component that is deeply submerged within our sense of self? Or is it just a meta-concept ? Some attachment to our ego ? Or the essence of our personality and being? Well, I'm totally confused now. Thanks, PsyFi..... |
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| psyfi | Aug 1 2005, 08:31 AM Post #14 |
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psyfi
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The bible defines the soul as composed of a person's mind, will and emotion. I think that it differs from spirit which is the eternal self. Our mind, our will (including the ability to chose between good and evil) and our emotions, at this point in time, cannot be said to be eternal because they are riddled through with false beliefs and misunderstandings of self and God which generate less than godly emotions, all of which require change to conform to Truth and Truth alone. When soul changes in that way, it will be one with spirit and eternity. But in BSG, I believe that they use 'spirit' and 'soul' interchangeably and I think they mean some eternal part of self that does not need a body to live, be that body organic or machine. |
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| Dr. Noah | Aug 1 2005, 08:34 AM Post #15 |
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Sistertrek's Asian Correspondant
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I think Franko stated it best. Perhaps if that was the end goal of some kind of robotics genius, it could be possible, but it would throw theologans on their head if it were ever accomplished. Only God is supposedly able to "create" a soul. |
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1:51 PM Jul 11