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Attack of the Zombie Dogs
Topic Started: Jun 28 2005, 12:45 AM (541 Views)
somerled
Member Avatar
Admiral MacDonald RN
Dwayne
Jun 29 2005, 09:23 AM
Quote:
 
During the procedure blood is replaced with saline solution at a few degrees above zero. The dogs' body temperature drops to only 7C, compared with the usual 37C, inducing a state of hypothermia before death.

Although the animals are clinically dead, their tissues and organs are perfectly preserved.

somer one really needs to learn to read.

I read that too , reading it doesn't make it true.

Also the fact that any details of where the alleged experiment (other than a very vague statement) was provided and who these scientists were was omitted , and there was no reference made to any peer reviewed journals containing a paper on the research ==> highly likely the story is fake .


Resident Evil inspired chain being perpetrated here - ie a hoax. You are all the sillyer for believing it. :rotfl: :loling:

(Story has all the hallmarks of an effective believeable hoax. I hereby declare this is a hoax - as the resident Skeptic , Dwayne is welcome to try to prove otherwize .)
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Admiralbill_gomec
UberAdmiral
Actually, as a skeptic, wouldn't you have to be the one to prove it false? The burden of proof would be upon you.
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Dwayne
Profanity deleted by Hoss
somerled
Jun 29 2005, 09:41 AM
Dwayne
Jun 29 2005, 09:23 AM
Quote:
 
During the procedure blood is replaced with saline solution at a few degrees above zero. The dogs' body temperature drops to only 7C, compared with the usual 37C, inducing a state of hypothermia before death.

Although the animals are clinically dead, their tissues and organs are perfectly preserved.

somer one really needs to learn to read.

I read that too , reading it doesn't make it true.

Also the fact that any details of where the alleged experiment (other than a very vague statement) was provided and who these scientists were was omitted , and there was no reference made to any peer reviewed journals containing a paper on the research ==> highly likely the story is fake .


Resident Evil inspired chain being perpetrated here - ie a hoax. You are all the sillyer for believing it. :rotfl: :loling:

(Story has all the hallmarks of an effective believeable hoax. I hereby declare this is a hoax - as the resident Skeptic , Dwayne is welcome to try to prove otherwize .)

It's highly likely that you have no idea what you're talking about.

I thought about using this post as a chance for you to take back your statement that this is a fake news story, but then I figured it might be instructional to show every one just how wrong you normally are about things when you open you mouth (preverbially speaking).

For the record, there is Safar Center for Resuscitation Research at the University of Pittsburgh.

And for the record the Safar Center for Resuscitation Research does have a suspended animation program...
Quote:
 
SHOCK AND SUSPENDED ANIMATION PROGRAM

The hemorrhagic shock (HS) and suspended animation program consists of project I on hemorrhage shock (HS) in rats and pigs (P.I., Dr. Tisherman; Co-P.I., Dr. Safar); and project II on suspended animation (SA) in dogs (P.I., Dr. Safar; Co-P.I., Dr. Tisherman). The funding since 1997 was made possible through special “plus-up” funds fromCongress initiated by former Navy Commander Lyn Yaffe, M.D. During 2001/2003, the HS studies were funded separately by the Office of Naval Research. For the two programs combined, we received total funds (including 50% institutional “indirect costs”) of approximately $1,182,649 during 2002/2003.
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Dr. Noah
Sistertrek's Asian Correspondant
So what do you think the next step is going to be in this research? If you can only do this for a few hours how would you stretch that into say an extended space flight hibernation?
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Dwayne
Profanity deleted by Hoss
Dr. Noah
Jun 29 2005, 11:27 AM
So what do you think the next step is going to be in this research? If you can only do this for a few hours how would you stretch that into say an extended space flight hibernation?

I don't know, but as for its use in an emergency room trauma center could be invaluable.

Imagine the value of a critically injured person given just a few more critical hours in which surgens could repair damage without the pressure on the doctors of the patient bleeding out.

Many lifes could be saved by this research.
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Dr. Noah
Sistertrek's Asian Correspondant
Good point. It's still pretty freaky though.
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Dwayne
Profanity deleted by Hoss
Dr. Noah
Jun 29 2005, 11:47 AM
Good point. It's still pretty freaky though.

Well, yeah. Of course. I makes us totally re-evaluate what it means to be dead and alive, and the line inbetween.
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Dr. Noah
Sistertrek's Asian Correspondant
I wonder what this might mean in that respect. If one can technically return from the dead after 3 hours, maybe this will reveal something about the medical point of no return so to speak.
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somerled
Member Avatar
Admiral MacDonald RN
Dwayne
Jun 29 2005, 11:24 AM
somerled
Jun 29 2005, 09:41 AM
Dwayne
Jun 29 2005, 09:23 AM
Quote:
 
During the procedure blood is replaced with saline solution at a few degrees above zero. The dogs' body temperature drops to only 7C, compared with the usual 37C, inducing a state of hypothermia before death.

Although the animals are clinically dead, their tissues and organs are perfectly preserved.

somer one really needs to learn to read.

I read that too , reading it doesn't make it true.

Also the fact that any details of where the alleged experiment (other than a very vague statement) was provided and who these scientists were was omitted , and there was no reference made to any peer reviewed journals containing a paper on the research ==> highly likely the story is fake .


Resident Evil inspired chain being perpetrated here - ie a hoax. You are all the sillyer for believing it. :rotfl: :loling:

(Story has all the hallmarks of an effective believeable hoax. I hereby declare this is a hoax - as the resident Skeptic , Dwayne is welcome to try to prove otherwize .)

It's highly likely that you have no idea what you're talking about.

I thought about using this post as a chance for you to take back your statement that this is a fake news story, but then I figured it might be instructional to show every one just how wrong you normally are about things when you open you mouth (preverbially speaking).

For the record, there is Safar Center for Resuscitation Research at the University of Pittsburgh.

And for the record the Safar Center for Resuscitation Research does have a suspended animation program...
Quote:
 
SHOCK AND SUSPENDED ANIMATION PROGRAM

The hemorrhagic shock (HS) and suspended animation program consists of project I on hemorrhage shock (HS) in rats and pigs (P.I., Dr. Tisherman; Co-P.I., Dr. Safar); and project II on suspended animation (SA) in dogs (P.I., Dr. Safar; Co-P.I., Dr. Tisherman). The funding since 1997 was made possible through special “plus-up” funds fromCongress initiated by former Navy Commander Lyn Yaffe, M.D. During 2001/2003, the HS studies were funded separately by the Office of Naval Research. For the two programs combined, we received total funds (including 50% institutional “indirect costs”) of approximately $1,182,649 during 2002/2003.

Nah.

Still see no evidence in the links provided that the Zombie Dogs story is anything but a hoax.

But you are welcome to try to find a citation that might be source for the story in peer reviewed literature.



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captain_proton_au
Member Avatar
A Robot in Disguise

:rolleyes:
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Dwayne
Profanity deleted by Hoss
somerled
Jun 29 2005, 03:54 PM
Dwayne
Jun 29 2005, 11:24 AM
somerled
Jun 29 2005, 09:41 AM
Dwayne
Jun 29 2005, 09:23 AM
Quote:
 
During the procedure blood is replaced with saline solution at a few degrees above zero. The dogs' body temperature drops to only 7C, compared with the usual 37C, inducing a state of hypothermia before death.

Although the animals are clinically dead, their tissues and organs are perfectly preserved.

somer one really needs to learn to read.

I read that too , reading it doesn't make it true.

Also the fact that any details of where the alleged experiment (other than a very vague statement) was provided and who these scientists were was omitted , and there was no reference made to any peer reviewed journals containing a paper on the research ==> highly likely the story is fake .


Resident Evil inspired chain being perpetrated here - ie a hoax. You are all the sillyer for believing it. :rotfl: :loling:

(Story has all the hallmarks of an effective believeable hoax. I hereby declare this is a hoax - as the resident Skeptic , Dwayne is welcome to try to prove otherwize .)

It's highly likely that you have no idea what you're talking about.

I thought about using this post as a chance for you to take back your statement that this is a fake news story, but then I figured it might be instructional to show every one just how wrong you normally are about things when you open you mouth (preverbially speaking).

For the record, there is Safar Center for Resuscitation Research at the University of Pittsburgh.

And for the record the Safar Center for Resuscitation Research does have a suspended animation program...
Quote:
 
SHOCK AND SUSPENDED ANIMATION PROGRAM

The hemorrhagic shock (HS) and suspended animation program consists of project I on hemorrhage shock (HS) in rats and pigs (P.I., Dr. Tisherman; Co-P.I., Dr. Safar); and project II on suspended animation (SA) in dogs (P.I., Dr. Safar; Co-P.I., Dr. Tisherman). The funding since 1997 was made possible through special “plus-up” funds fromCongress initiated by former Navy Commander Lyn Yaffe, M.D. During 2001/2003, the HS studies were funded separately by the Office of Naval Research. For the two programs combined, we received total funds (including 50% institutional “indirect costs”) of approximately $1,182,649 during 2002/2003.

Nah.

Still see no evidence in the links provided that the Zombie Dogs story is anything but a hoax.

But you are welcome to try to find a citation that might be source for the story in peer reviewed literature.

Which shows why you have no credibility.
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24thcenstfan
Member Avatar
Something Wicked This Fae Comes
I don't see how these scientists will even get permission to perform experiments on human beings.

In general, I think this experimentation is a bit far fetched. I.E, I don't put much stock in the results these scientists are proclaiming to have achieved with the canine experimentation.
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Dwayne
Profanity deleted by Hoss
24thcenstfan
Jun 29 2005, 05:17 PM
I don't see how these scientists will even get permission to perform experiments on human beings. 

In general, I think this experimentation is a bit far fetched.  I.E, I don't put much stock in the results these scientists are proclaiming to have achieved with the canine experimentation.

And what makes you think it's far fetched, because somerled says so?

Well, you are wrong. This research may seem like science fiction, but it is rooted in science and contrary to what somerled thinks (as if he ever really does), this research is peer reviewed ...
Quote:
 
Peter Safar and Resuscitative Hypothermia: Recent Investigation

Peter Safar also carried out a considerable body of work in the last 20 years to support the use of hypothermia on three additional fronts that are relevant to readership of TraumaCare. First, he worked closely with trauma surgeon and critical care physician Samuel Tisherman on the use of mild hypothermia to prolong the “golden hour” of shock. That work is in a highly controversial area because retrospective clinical studies associate exposure/secondary hypothermia with increased mortality rate. However, the studies of Safar and Tisherman in this area represent a substantial series of experiments in rodent and pig models of hemorrhagic shock, demonstrating that mild or moderate hypothermia can delay the time to exsanguination cardiopulmonary arrest in this condition.20-25 Second, he developed, after discussions with Colonel Ronald Bellamy of the United States Army, a novel approach to the resuscitation of victims of exsanguination cardiopulmonary arrest. He proposed inducing a brief (several-hour) state of suspended animation using an aortic flush of a cold preservative solution that could buy time for transport and surgical repair, which could be followed by delayed resuscitation using cardiopulmonary bypass.26-29 We at the Safar Center have been fortunate to participate in this landmark project, which, to date, has been able to successfully achieve good outcome in dogs after an exsanguination cardiopulmonary arrest of 2 hours’ duration using profound hypothermia (10°C).30 It will be interesting to see over the years that follow if clinical trials are carried out in either of these two extremely novel areas of research.


Not to mention, aspects of this research has already been put to use in trauma centers.
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24thcenstfan
Member Avatar
Something Wicked This Fae Comes
Dwayne
Jun 29 2005, 10:06 PM
24thcenstfan
Jun 29 2005, 05:17 PM
I don't see how these scientists will even get permission to perform experiments on human beings. 

In general, I think this experimentation is a bit far fetched.  I.E, I don't put much stock in the results these scientists are proclaiming to have achieved with the canine experimentation.

And what makes you think it's far fetched, because somerled says so?

Well, you are wrong. This research may seem like science fiction, but it is rooted in science and contrary to what somerled thinks (as if he ever really does), this research is peer reviewed ...
Quote:
 
Peter Safar and Resuscitative Hypothermia: Recent Investigation

Peter Safar also carried out a considerable body of work in the last 20 years to support the use of hypothermia on three additional fronts that are relevant to readership of TraumaCare. First, he worked closely with trauma surgeon and critical care physician Samuel Tisherman on the use of mild hypothermia to prolong the “golden hour” of shock. That work is in a highly controversial area because retrospective clinical studies associate exposure/secondary hypothermia with increased mortality rate. However, the studies of Safar and Tisherman in this area represent a substantial series of experiments in rodent and pig models of hemorrhagic shock, demonstrating that mild or moderate hypothermia can delay the time to exsanguination cardiopulmonary arrest in this condition.20-25 Second, he developed, after discussions with Colonel Ronald Bellamy of the United States Army, a novel approach to the resuscitation of victims of exsanguination cardiopulmonary arrest. He proposed inducing a brief (several-hour) state of suspended animation using an aortic flush of a cold preservative solution that could buy time for transport and surgical repair, which could be followed by delayed resuscitation using cardiopulmonary bypass.26-29 We at the Safar Center have been fortunate to participate in this landmark project, which, to date, has been able to successfully achieve good outcome in dogs after an exsanguination cardiopulmonary arrest of 2 hours’ duration using profound hypothermia (10°C).30 It will be interesting to see over the years that follow if clinical trials are carried out in either of these two extremely novel areas of research.


Not to mention, aspects of this research has already been put to use in trauma centers.

So, because I am of the opinion that the outcome of the experiments is far fetched, I must be going by what Somerled had to say on the subject? Not even close. I read the main article and formed my own opinion on the subject before even reading what Somerled had to say.

The subsequent links you have provided since the main post have not succeeded in changing my opinion on the subject. My main bone of contention lies with the claim that the canines were resuscitated after “several hours” of being clinically dead. More difficult to believe is that after they had been clinically dead for “several hours” there was no sign of abnormalities or brain damage (despite their tissues and organs being perfectly preserved).

For right now, that is and will continue to be my opinion until such time as more visual (video) and detailed proof on the specific (recent) experimentation has been released to the public.

And yes, beyond reading the section you quoted, I skimmed the TraumaCare Publication from Spring 2004 that you linked.
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Dwayne
Profanity deleted by Hoss
24thcenstfan
Jun 29 2005, 09:52 PM
Dwayne
Jun 29 2005, 10:06 PM
24thcenstfan
Jun 29 2005, 05:17 PM
I don't see how these scientists will even get permission to perform experiments on human beings. 

In general, I think this experimentation is a bit far fetched.  I.E, I don't put much stock in the results these scientists are proclaiming to have achieved with the canine experimentation.

And what makes you think it's far fetched, because somerled says so?

Well, you are wrong. This research may seem like science fiction, but it is rooted in science and contrary to what somerled thinks (as if he ever really does), this research is peer reviewed ...
Quote:
 
Peter Safar and Resuscitative Hypothermia: Recent Investigation

Peter Safar also carried out a considerable body of work in the last 20 years to support the use of hypothermia on three additional fronts that are relevant to readership of TraumaCare. First, he worked closely with trauma surgeon and critical care physician Samuel Tisherman on the use of mild hypothermia to prolong the “golden hour” of shock. That work is in a highly controversial area because retrospective clinical studies associate exposure/secondary hypothermia with increased mortality rate. However, the studies of Safar and Tisherman in this area represent a substantial series of experiments in rodent and pig models of hemorrhagic shock, demonstrating that mild or moderate hypothermia can delay the time to exsanguination cardiopulmonary arrest in this condition.20-25 Second, he developed, after discussions with Colonel Ronald Bellamy of the United States Army, a novel approach to the resuscitation of victims of exsanguination cardiopulmonary arrest. He proposed inducing a brief (several-hour) state of suspended animation using an aortic flush of a cold preservative solution that could buy time for transport and surgical repair, which could be followed by delayed resuscitation using cardiopulmonary bypass.26-29 We at the Safar Center have been fortunate to participate in this landmark project, which, to date, has been able to successfully achieve good outcome in dogs after an exsanguination cardiopulmonary arrest of 2 hours’ duration using profound hypothermia (10°C).30 It will be interesting to see over the years that follow if clinical trials are carried out in either of these two extremely novel areas of research.


Not to mention, aspects of this research has already been put to use in trauma centers.

So, because I am of the opinion that the outcome of the experiments is far fetched, I must be going by what Somerled had to say on the subject? Not even close. I read the main article and formed my own opinion on the subject before even reading what Somerled had to say.

The subsequent links you have provided since the main post have not succeeded in changing my opinion on the subject. My main bone of contention lies with the claim that the canines were resuscitated after “several hours” of being clinically dead. More difficult to believe is that after they had been clinically dead for “several hours” there was no sign of abnormalities or brain damage (despite their tissues and organs being perfectly preserved).

For right now, that is and will continue to be my opinion until such time as more visual (video) and detailed proof on the specific (recent) experimentation has been released to the public.

And yes, beyond reading the section you quoted, I skimmed the TraumaCare Publication from Spring 2004 that you linked.

Well, you sound like someone who after reading of studies of penicillin doubt its actual effectiveness.
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