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The Rapture?; Questions, opinions and observations...
Topic Started: Jun 1 2005, 07:24 AM (658 Views)
Fesarius
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Admiral
Swidden,

That sounds like the Gospel of John, off the top of my head. Some of those 'difficult teachings' of Jesus had the disciples questioning their allegiance, and I believe that a couple of them are included in the Johannine corpus (the letters as well as the synoptic gospel). Please let me know if you remember which of the gospels it was that the lesson was from, if you don't mind.

BTW, on the writings and their authors--I am very, very intrigued with this topic, as I am with canonicity. Perhaps another thread, and another day. :)
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psyfi
psyfi
What to take literally and what to take metaphorically is a real problem with the bible. However, this is what I have noticed over the years. Those who take the bible literally, while certainly not free of certain interpretations that I consider plain wrong, nonetheless are those who consistently have miracles. They are the ones who when the doctor says, "Sorry, there is no hope," start to move in a miraculous flow and get their miracle a good percentage of the time. This leads me to think that while a fixed and stubborn focus on believing that every scripture should be taken literally leads to some scriptural misunderstanding, it nonetheless provides one very real method for releasing the strength of God in our darkest situations in life.
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Franko
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psyfi
Jun 1 2005, 08:49 PM
What to take literally and what to take metaphorically is a real problem with the bible. However, this is what I have noticed over the years. Those who take the bible literally, while certainly not free of certain interpretations that I consider plain wrong, nonetheless are those who consistently have miracles. They are the ones who when the doctor says, "Sorry, there is no hope," start to move in a miraculous flow and get their miracle a good percentage of the time. This leads me to think that while a fixed and stubborn focus on believing that every scripture should be taken literally leads to some scriptural misunderstanding, it nonetheless provides one very real method for releasing the strength of God in our darkest situations in life.



Those are interesting points. While I, too, am wary of taking many parts of Scripture literally, in the end I would think that Faith is what matters. God isn't going to punish anybody (or withhold grace) because of "intellectual" error.

Even a fence-sitting infidel agnostic like me gets the occasional treat of cosmic grace; insight into problems that define a proper spirtitual outcome; and respectable fraternity with my "evangelical" friends.


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psyfi
psyfi
Franko
Jun 2 2005, 12:45 AM
psyfi
Jun 1 2005, 08:49 PM
What to take literally and what to take metaphorically is a real problem with the bible.  However, this is what I have noticed over the years. Those who take the bible literally, while certainly not free of certain interpretations that I consider plain wrong, nonetheless are those who consistently have miracles. They are the ones who when the doctor says, "Sorry, there is no hope," start to move in a miraculous flow and get their miracle a good percentage of the time. This leads me to think that while a fixed and stubborn focus on believing that every scripture should be taken literally leads to some scriptural misunderstanding, it nonetheless provides one very real method for releasing the strength of God in our darkest situations in life.



Those are interesting points. While I, too, am wary of taking many parts of Scripture literally, in the end I would think that Faith is what matters. God isn't going to punish anybody (or withhold grace) because of "intellectual" error.

Even a fence-sitting infidel agnostic like me gets the occasional treat of cosmic grace; insight into problems that define a proper spirtitual outcome; and respectable fraternity with my "evangelical" friends.

I totally agree with you. And faith is a good example of scriptures that can and should be taken both literally and metaphorically. When Jesus tells us that our faith can move mountains, he isn't kidding and means it literally but he also means it metaphorically in terms of the psychological and emotional 'mountains" or obstacles that we face in life, in our relationships with others, and so forth.

Regarding "intellectual error" I think that not intellectual error but, at least sometimes, 'intellectuality' can be one of the biggest mountains we face. There can be a tendency for spirituality to be all in our head with little practical application of that faith. It does me little good to know that forgiveness is an important part of Christianity, or to be able to quote all sorts of scriptures on the need for forgiveness, or delineate in precise detail the nature of forgiveness IF in my daily life I am an unforgiving person.
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Fesarius
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Admiral
Are there any dispensationalists whom post on the Board? If so, it would be fruitful to hear what they have to say about the rapture.
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Hoss
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Don't make me use my bare hands on you.
John
Ch6:51-58
I am the living bread that came down from heaven; whoever eats this bread will live forever; and the bread that I will give is my flesh for the life of the world."  The Jews quarreled among themselves, saying, "How can this man give us (his) flesh to eat?"  Jesus said to them, "Amen, amen, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you.  Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him on the last day.  For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink.  Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me and I in him.  Just as the living Father sent me and I have life because of the Father, so also the one who feeds on me will have life because of me.  This is the bread that came down from heaven. Unlike your ancestors who ate and still died, whoever eats this bread will live forever."
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Dr. Noah
Sistertrek's Asian Correspondant
Brrrrr!

I always got chills when they talked about eating the flesh and drinking the blood, sounds so cannibalistic and vampiric. :scared:
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Fesarius
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Admiral
38957,

Yes, that is the passage in John that I was thinking of when I mentioned that to Swidden. Thanks for posting it. :)
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Hoss
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Don't make me use my bare hands on you.
I have always taken this parable as foretelling of the final judgement:
Matthew 13: 25-30
 
"The kingdom of heaven may be likened to a man who sowed good seed in his field.  While everyone was asleep his enemy came and sowed weeds all through the wheat, and then went off.  When the crop grew and bore fruit, the weeds appeared as well.  The slaves of the householder came to him and said, 'Master, did you not sow good seed in your field? Where have the weeds come from?'  He answered, 'An enemy has done this.' His slaves said to him, 'Do you want us to go and pull them up?'  He replied, 'No, if you pull up the weeds you might uproot the wheat along with them.  Let them grow together until harvest; then at harvest time I will say to the harvesters, "First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles for burning; but gather the wheat into my barn."


I don't know if the statement "First collect the weeds" has any baring on what happens in what order.
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Hoss
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Don't make me use my bare hands on you.
Fesarius
Jun 2 2005, 10:54 AM
38957,

Yes, that is the passage in John that I was thinking of when I mentioned that to Swidden. Thanks for posting it. :)

I went to church on Sunday as well. ;)
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Fesarius
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Admiral
^^^
Do you attend the same church as Swidden?
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Hoss
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Don't make me use my bare hands on you.
Fesarius
Jun 2 2005, 11:02 AM
^^^
Do you attend the same church as Swidden?

Yes and no depending on the context of the word church.

The scriptural readings are the same in every Catholic Church each week.
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Fesarius
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Admiral
Quote:
 
The scriptural readings are the same in every Catholic Church each week.

That is the answer to the question I ought to have asked. Thanks. :)
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psyfi
psyfi
Dr. Noah
Jun 2 2005, 11:48 AM
Brrrrr!

I always got chills when they talked about eating the flesh and drinking the blood, sounds so cannibalistic and vampiric. :scared:

This scripture does seem to have these type of overtones. As I recall it so shocked the people hearing this that they wanted to kill him. But if you consider that we are talking about somebody who so intimately understood the nature of TRUTH/REALITY that he could walk on water, there must have been something more, something meaningful and clear that he was trying to get across to us about who and WHAT he was, something that was actually far removed from the body. Let's consider you, Dr. Noah. Is there anything that you could give me that I could take into myself and possess or ingest that is not physical and yet is in a very real sense a core part of who you are, your 'life blood' you might say?
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Fesarius
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Admiral
Quote:
 
Is there anything that you could give me that I could take into myself and possess or ingest that is not physical and yet is in a very real sense a core part of who you are, your 'life blood' you might say?

Psyfi,

May I interject on behalf of Dr. Noah since he is not on the Board at the moment? Knowing him as well as I do, I can speak for him when it comes to spritual and philosophical matters. I also know fairly well how he would answer this question. I can state unequivocally that the one thing that he would recommend giving to you, and something that 'yet is in a very real sense a core part of who [he is] (his 'life blood' you might say)' is




















The entire seven seasons of DS9 on DVD. :rotfl: :woohoo: :loling: ;) :Fes:
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