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South Korea; Anti-U.S. protest
Topic Started: May 30 2005, 12:40 PM (873 Views)
Dr. Noah
Sistertrek's Asian Correspondant
What would you call voluntary brainwashing such as joining a religious cult?
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who
Have light saber. Will travel.
There have been a number of announced base closings in the US with protest from the communities because of loss of income to the community. Why should the US maintain bases in Korea and support their economy unless they pay the US cost plus? It is just not fair to the US taxpayer.

With few exceptions, I think we should close foreign bases. The countries can either pay the US at a profit or spend their own money for their defense instead of making patsies of the US.
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Wichita
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The Adminstrator wRench
Dr. Noah
May 31 2005, 02:25 PM
Big difference between that and gang rape.

You are kidding, aren't you?

Where did you get the idea that only ONE person did that at a time?

AND UN peacekeepers (according to UN official reports) HAVE ENGAGED IN GANG RAPE and have NOT been even tried. Some, in fact, have simply been reassigned to other refugee camps.

I don't see how being raped by just one person is OK in your estimation, but you are incorrect to assume that UN staff and troops did not engage in gang rape.
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Dr. Noah
Sistertrek's Asian Correspondant
So both the US and UN have committed the same crime. We have a stalemate. Can we get back on topic?

I only meant to offer an explanation for the protests. :rolleyes: :ZZZZZ:
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Dwayne
Profanity deleted by Hoss
My anger is mounting ... someone slap him down.

ANY US service member charged with committing rape will be tried and if found guilty, will then be sentenced by a military court.

The UN personnel are not facing justice at all.
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Minuet
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Dr. Noah
May 31 2005, 10:29 AM
What would you call voluntary brainwashing such as joining a religious cult?

People who join cults do not do so voluntarily.

They may go to thier first meeting out of curiousity. But what keeps them there are brainwashing techniques in thier purest form. First people are usually taken on a "retreat" While there they are deprived of sleep and food to make them amenable. While in this state they are told the same things over and over until they believe wholeheartedly.

You rarely hear about these types of techniques being used in Politics. In fact I would say that politically you are far more likely to find people that have come to thier own decision through the course of free will. Students may be indoctrinated to some extent by thier professors - but they are coming in with clear minds and full stomachs fully able to think for themselves. And they are free to leave the room. Many do reject what the professors say.
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Wichita
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The Adminstrator wRench
Dr. Noah
May 31 2005, 02:32 PM
So both the US and UN have committed the same crime. We have a stalemate. Can we get back on topic?

I only meant to offer an explanation for the protests. :rolleyes: :ZZZZZ:

Or, in other words, you don't want people to question what you said .. :ZZZZZ:

I understand why ...

Dr. Noah
 
So both the US and UN have committed the same crime.


THE US committed the same crime? You certainly haven't demonstrated that.

UN officials in charge of distributing food to refugees - AS PART OF THEIR JOBS - are demanding sex from children for that food. UN "peacekeepers" are raping people over whom they have official control. The UN has done nothing about actions taken by these people in the COURSE OF DOING THEIR JOBS.

Yes, US servicemen commit crimes. Individuals commit crimes - even UN officials stationed in NYC commit crimes. The case in your link didn't have quite the response though that your link made it appear.

Quote:
 
U.S. servicemen convicted
in Okinawa rape
Sentences lighter than expected
March 7, 1996
Web posted at: 12:45 a.m. EST (0545 GMT)

NAHA, Okinawa (CNN) -- Three U.S. servicemen were convicted Thursday in the kidnapping and rape of a 12-year-old Okinawa girl and sentenced to up to seven years in a Japanese prison.

The verdict handed down by a panel of three judges -- Japan does not have a jury system -- followed months of protests against the U.S. military presence in Okinawa. In the aftermath of the crime, support for American troops in Japan has reached one of its lowest points since World War II.

The sentence was lighter than expected; prosecutors had urged the judges to return 10-year sentences against all three, arguing that the girl was kidnapped, beaten, brutally raped, and then abandoned.

Navy Seaman Marcus Gill, 23, of Woodville, Texas; and Marine Pfc. Rodrico Harp, 23, of Griffin, Georgia, each received seven-year prison sentences for the September 4 abduction and rape of the girl. Marine Pfc. Kendrick Ledet, 20, of Waycross, Georgia, was sentenced to six-and-a-half years in prison. None of the three showed emotion when the sentences were read.

Judges say crime was systematic
In a statement, the judges said the crime was carried out "systematically," violated the victim's human dignity, and caused her extreme physical and psychological harm.

All three defendants had confessed to some role in the crime. On the trial's opening day, Gill said that he raped the girl, while Ledet and Harp said they had been bullied by Gill into abducting the girl and that they did not participate in the rape itself. . While passing sentence, Chief Judge Shinei Nagamine said Ledet received a lighter sentence because he did not actually have intercourse with the girl.

"He tried to have sexual intercourse but was unable to because he realized she was so young," Nagamine said.

The court, however, said Harp's testimony was "untrustworthy," and he therefore was given the same sentence as Gill.

About a dozen red-stenciled anti-U.S. base signs hung outside the court Thursday, some reading "American Animals Get Out" in English.

An emotional time
Emotions have run high during the trial, both inside and outside the courtroom.


In the trial's first session in November, the victim's father said he wished he could kill the three Americans himself. Later, the interpreter broke down in tears as she rendered into Japanese Gill's graphic account of the rape.

Even as testimony was being heard, record numbers of Okinawans took to the streets, demanding the immediate withdrawal of the 27,000 American troops on the island.

There are other reasons for the Okinawans' anger: They earn about half the wages of workers in the rest of Japan and unemployment is twice as high.

But U.S. Defense Secretary William Perry stressed that American troops have an important role to play in Okinawa.

"The presence of U.S. troops in both Japan and Korea is crucial, in my judgment, to maintaining security and stability in the Pacific," he said. "It's not just a matter of protecting Japan and Korea. Not just a matter of protecting U.S. interests. It's maintaining security and stability in the whole region."


Okinawa Gov. Masahide Ota, a longtime opponent of the U.S. bases, has called for the troops' removal by 2015, and his government has drawn up detailed plans for the departure.

"Some American troops still believe Okinawa is U.S. territory," he said in an interview earlier this week. "Okinawa is ours, not yours."

In a sense, much of the island has been off-limits to its 1.2 million resident Okinawans. Although Okinawa accounts for less than 1 percent of Japan's total area, one-fifth of the island is taken up by U.S. bases that house more than half of the 45,000 American troops stationed in Japan.


Source

So your one link that mentioned this - although not exactly on topic since it mentions Okinawa, not South Korea - tells a story of individual US military committing a crime - for which they were tried, convicted and sentenced in a Japanese court.

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Fesarius
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Admiral
Quote:
 
First people are usually taken on a "retreat" While there they are deprived of sleep and food to make them amenable. While in this state they are told the same things over and over until they believe wholeheartedly.

And you have listed three items from my list of what to look for in a cult. These are almost all synchronous commonalities, although there is some deviation from cult to cult.
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psyfi
psyfi
Regarding brainwashing, technically it is a very difficult thing to do. The Chinese did it successfully to some US soldiers during the Korean war BUT they had what was required to do it, namely having a person in a confined environment and totally controlling his reinforcement. Religious cults do often have the ability to do this and so are frequently successful; but without the contained environment and pretty much total control over people's reinforcement, nobody is being brainwashed.

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Minuet
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Fleet Admiral Assistant wRench, Chief Supper Officer
^^^ Exactly my point!
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Wichita
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The Adminstrator wRench
True, I don't regard the students as "brainwashed".

It is natural for the young to be much more about change than older people (as a generalization, not everybody).
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Minuet
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Fesarius
May 31 2005, 10:48 AM
Quote:
 
First people are usually taken on a "retreat" While there they are deprived of sleep and food to make them amenable. While in this state they are told the same things over and over until they believe wholeheartedly.

And you have listed three items from my list of what to look for in a cult. These are almost all synchronous commonalities, although there is some deviation from cult to cult.

When I was a student I went on a retreat with the Jewish Student Union. They had a guest for the weekend who was an expert in cults. We had an excellent seminar on what to look for. It was an important topic for us because Jews for Jesus uses cult techniques to convert Jews and they target students.
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Dr. Noah
Sistertrek's Asian Correspondant
:rotfl: I'm so sorry but everytime I hear "Jews for Jesus" I can't help but think of that scene in Airplane! when the colonel is fighting off solicitors at the airport. :loling:
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Fesarius
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Admiral
Quote:
 
When I was a student I went on a retreat with the Jewish Student Union. They had a guest for the weekend who was an expert in cults. We had an excellent seminar on what to look for. It was an important topic for us because Jews for Jesus uses cult techniques to convert Jews and they target students.

When I was an undergraduate, I was approached a couple of times by members from different cults. They are so sweet and kind in the beginning. They even invited me to dinner at their home. Before I accepted their invitation, I questioned their tenets. I also mentioned that the founder of one of the cults had recently deceased, and that I was curious who would take over as their leader now that he was no longer living. They proceeded to swear at me and got all bent out of shape. Needless to say, my invitation to dinner was revoked.
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Dr. Noah
Sistertrek's Asian Correspondant
I am frequently approached by people wanting to convert me. It gets quite annoying.
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