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Evidence that the president planed to go to war; long before he told the American people.
Topic Started: May 26 2005, 08:05 AM (440 Views)
Dr. Noah
Sistertrek's Asian Correspondant
Then why not discuss the program rather than creating a political satire?
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Darthsith
Ensign
Political satire? Are you referring to the other post? I found that while searching for real information to post. I thought it was funny and I thought it was allowed on this message board. So I posted it.


This post however is just a true discussion of history.
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Dr. Noah
Sistertrek's Asian Correspondant
My fault. I get confused when there are two posts of the same subject in the same forum.
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24thcenstfan
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Something Wicked This Fae Comes
Darthsith
May 26 2005, 10:10 AM
Dr. Noah
May 26 2005, 02:07 PM
Then what is the reason for your post?

I watched a discovery times program last night on FDR and found it interesting.

Then why didn't you put "FDR" somewhere in your title? By saying "the president," you were immediately implying a link to the current President.

I think you are getting exactly what you planned for... a debate that ended up discussing/comparing the current president and war in Iraq with what happened leading upto WWII.

However, not being a mindreader, I can't say for sure. That is my opinion of what you did though.
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Dr. Noah
Sistertrek's Asian Correspondant
I concur.
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Darthsith
Ensign
24thcenstfan
May 26 2005, 02:21 PM
However, not being a mindreader, I can't say for sure.

I agree,


It was my understand that a president is always referred to as president even after they are no longer holding the current title. Clinton is still President Clinton, and Carter is still president Carter. There is nothing untrue with the title of this post.
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Dr. Noah
Sistertrek's Asian Correspondant
I have always heard a former president referred to as "Former President _____"
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Minuet
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Fleet Admiral Assistant wRench, Chief Supper Officer
I'm Canadian and even I know that former presidents are still entitled to the title of President. Not "former president".
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Dr. Noah
Sistertrek's Asian Correspondant
That's the way I have always heard them referred to.
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Swidden
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Adm. Gadfly-at-large; Provisional wRench-fly at large
They may be referred to as "Former President_______," but when they are addressed it is as "Mr. President."
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8247
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Apparently we look like this now
I've heard Clinton referred to as President Clinton, Bush Sr. referred to President Bush, etc...after they were out of office.
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24thcenstfan
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Something Wicked This Fae Comes
They can be referred to either depending on the circumstances.

However, FDR is dead. "Former President" would have been more accurate.

We are all mincing words though. I think DarthSith still knew the effect his wording would have. Why? Because he just started a new thread with a similar teaser.
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Swidden
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Adm. Gadfly-at-large; Provisional wRench-fly at large
^^^
I am inclined to agree 24.
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Fesarius
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Admiral
Gvok,

Re: your Iraq and WWII question.

Iraq was most certainly a war of choice of the United States. World War I was a war of choice as well, arguably, but less so, I think.

World War II was as close to a 'just war' as we will ever live to see, I think, within our frame of modern history. The participation of the United States in the war on Hitler and the Nazis, I think, was morally justified. Japan was allied with Hitler, and so, by extension, included in the struggle against him (and those supporting his war aims, etc.; I mean, it is not about one person, no matter how apparently powerful).

The United States was not blameless, however, in my view, in the contest with Japan. The United States had competing economic interests in the Pacific with Japan, and was competing for resources, especially oil and iron/steel, but also rubber and other commodities. The United States restricted its iron trade with Japan well before Dec 7th, 1941.

On the other hand, nothing requires that one nation sell a commodity like iron ore, or scrap iron, to another. All I am saying is that Japan is a less clear case, and US/Japan relations in the 30's would bear looking into.

Finally, I believe that while the dropping of the first atomic bomb on Japan could be justified (if through a horrible calculus), the second can not. The cost in non-combatant lives, even in defeating a totalitarian state, is something I would never have been able to face, given the choice. Others obviously draw that line to the right or the left (both bombs justified, neither bomb justified). The effects of Allied bombing, overall, also bear looking into IMO.
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gvok
Unregistered

That's probably a fair assessment and I can't disagree with any point you have made. However, in WWII the US and Japan were roughly on par militarily. The US and Iraq were no where near on par militarily when the US invaded that country. So if you want to argue that US chose to compete with Japan for resources in the Pacific it is not the same as saying that the US chose to invade Iraq. At least it is not the same in my estimation.
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