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I listened to Air America today
Topic Started: May 25 2005, 01:11 PM (1,197 Views)
CV6 Enterprise
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Captain
8247
May 26 2005, 10:30 PM
CV6...Have you ever listened to that hate fest?

No, I don't think there are any affeliates near by Fort Dodge that carry it. I could listen over the net, but I don't think I could put up with it, if it's as bad as you say it is.
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8247
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Apparently we look like this now
It was that terrible. I'm curious if any of the Liberals here listen to it. The reason being that I would never expect to hear Gvok, Impulsengine or Noah actually come out and say "If you are Republican, you have sold your soul." and mean it. They are intelligent people, which is something that I cant say about what I heard from the callers and commentators on Air America. All Air America does, from what I heard was promote hate. Not once did they say anything, other than to bash Bush, and Conservatives.
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psyfi
psyfi
who
May 26 2005, 09:20 PM
I think I originally stated that science is a religion. This is one definition of "religion" from the dictionary:

": a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith"

First, science is based on the belief (faith) that the underlying basis of the universe is matter/energy. The universe is independent of our minds and could exist without mind. It also is based on the belief that if something cannot be observed or measured then it does not exist (or at least is not important). Consciousness is explained as an epiphenomia of electrical activity in the brain. The mind, thought, emotions, perceptions cannot even be addressed by science.

Gravity and light are sometimes described as particles, as waves, as matter, as energy, as force, or perhaps strings (whatever they are). Science cannot yet even explain what light or gravity are.

In the view of science we are born into the world to pass on our genes and then die. That is that. Science leaves out a big part of reality that we know including our minds, thoughts, emotions, and perceptions as we experience them. Everything is just chemical-electrical activity in the brain.

Another contrasting belief is that everything is thought in our mind. This includes all of our perceptions including all of science. Perhaps the best analogy is the world created by the machine in the movie "The Matrix". The difference is that our mind creates our interwoven worlds of perception rather than a machine. Science works because we believe it does. Since we believe it we can use it. One may scoff at this view of reality if one's faith in science as religion keeps one's mind closed to other possibilities.

who

Yes, this is one of the key problems that science has. It's methods cannot really explain so many things that people know to be a true part of the human experience on earth. Love, mind, emotions----none of this is explained in any comprehensive way by a reduction of the experience to biophysioneural chemicals and processes. And yet, so often people want to hold science up as a framework to explain all that is the case. In the end, it is just another lens to look at the world, a lens that has some wonderful advantages and good things, a trip to the moon and even farther, antibiotics, the removal of a tumor on the brain, and so forth. But it has its limitations and some of them are quite profound. It would be a mistake to make it an idol or substitute it for God.

And that brings me back to Air America and Stem Cell Research. I mean these ridiculous claims about how Christopher Reeves would walk and this would be cured and that would be cured is the offering of Stem Cell Research as God. The data are far from convincing as to these claims, far from convincing. Given this inadequate data, the idea that loads of federal funds must immediately be placed in the pockets of institutions and scientists working in this area and that, in addition, ethical and moral concerns should be tossed out the window like so much debris, is nothing more than the call of a zealot that his god be worshiped. This is what I think was going on with the whole discussion on Air America.
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who
Have light saber. Will travel.
Franko
May 26 2005, 10:13 PM
who
May 26 2005, 06:20 PM

Gravity and light are sometimes described as particles, as waves, as matter, as energy, as force, or perhaps strings (whatever they are).  Science cannot yet even explain what light or gravity are.




It can't ??? Soooooo..... the space shuttle goes up into orbit and comes back based on .......... faith ?



I understand your argument concerning science and religion, but let's not get too carried away.


Without science you'd still be living in a cave wondering when it's safe to go to the water hole.

From the perspective that the universe is primarily mind, rather than matter/energy, all of our perceptions come from thought. When you say we are getting too carried away, do you mean it is difficult for your religion of science? The beliefs (faiths) of science are so pervasive in our society that it is often difficult to consider other possibilities. I thought Star Trek is partially about breaking some of our limiting ideas.

I have never lived in a cave.

Since this part of the discussion is more about religion and philosophy I have started a new thread in the Spiritual Journeys forum for those that may have an interest in it.
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Hoss
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Don't make me use my bare hands on you.
Franko
May 26 2005, 09:13 PM
Soooooo..... the space shuttle goes up into orbit and comes back based on .......... faith ?

Yes!
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who
Have light saber. Will travel.
8247
May 26 2005, 11:47 PM
It was that terrible. I'm curious if any of the Liberals here listen to it. The reason being that I would never expect to hear Gvok, Impulsengine or Noah actually come out and say "If you are Republican, you have sold your soul." and mean it. They are intelligent people, which is something that I cant say about what I heard from the callers and commentators on Air America. All Air America does, from what I heard was promote hate. Not once did they say anything, other than to bash Bush, and Conservatives.

"If you are Republican, you have sold your soul."

For those whose God is science, there is no soul. This expression is meaningless.
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Dr. Noah
Sistertrek's Asian Correspondant
I must reject the notion that people somehow worship science. Can't someone be both religious and scientific?

To answer 8247, I do listen to Air America, and while I don't agreee with everything the commentators and especially the callers say, I appreciate having news and political comedy from my point of view, which is a rare thing on AM radio these days. Politics is too often taken so seriously by myself that I forget to laugh about how ludicrous is it sometimes.
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Darthsith
Ensign
Dr. Noah
May 26 2005, 04:33 PM
I think there are a lot of people with something to gain from casting a lot of doubt on science. I don't think Alan Shepherd or John Glenn doubted sceince when they strapped themselves to a couple hydrogen tanks and flew outside the atmosphere and into cold space filled with hard deadly radiation.

If true, then there would have been no need for test flights before the endeavor. They would have just built one rocket based on the science and took off in it. But that is not what happened. What Alan Shepherd or John Glenn beloved in where the many many hard house put into building and testing the hydrogen tanks they strapped them selves to. What gravity was and why it existed played no or little part in the endeavor, just knowing that an explosive reaction of surfactant magnitude could over come it, Something the Chinese knew long before Newton was hit in the head with an apple.
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Dr. Noah
Sistertrek's Asian Correspondant
That's because science is based on careful experimentation, not faith.
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Darthsith
Ensign
Dr. Noah
May 27 2005, 02:04 PM
That's because science is based on careful experimentation, not faith.

I think some times it can be both, Engineers some times we have to guess, and if a person is spiritual that guess can be described as using faith.

Even Spock (the embodiment of science) in order to make the voyage home had to take a leap of faith.
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Dr. Noah
Sistertrek's Asian Correspondant
Something pretty funny Springer has been doing is playing "Blowing in the Wind" while a "detainee" is crying and begging him to stop the song.
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Minuet
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Fleet Admiral Assistant wRench, Chief Supper Officer
Hmmm - that sounds like a right wing sentiment, not left wing.

How strange - even the left wingers can see that much of what the detainees claim is torture couldn't be further from the truth.

That blows one big stereotype about leftwingers out of the water doesn't it? :rolleyes:
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Dr. Noah
Sistertrek's Asian Correspondant
Indeed it does. However, I would consider listening to that song for days on end torture myself. ( ;) )
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who
Have light saber. Will travel.
38957
May 27 2005, 06:37 AM
Franko
May 26 2005, 09:13 PM
Soooooo.....  the space shuttle goes up into orbit and comes back based on ..........  faith ?

Yes!

Good answer.
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who
Have light saber. Will travel.
Dr. Noah
May 27 2005, 08:41 AM
I must reject the notion that people somehow worship science. Can't someone be both religious and scientific?

I do not think someone can be both religious and entirely scientific. If your beliefs are determined by the scientific model then there is no place for religion.
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