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I listened to Air America today
Topic Started: May 25 2005, 01:11 PM (1,198 Views)
Fesarius
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Admiral
^^^
Yes, it sounds similar. What is the scientific equivalent of having faith? Reason? Just asking if anyone has ever thought of that before.
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psyfi
psyfi
Admiralbill_gomec
May 26 2005, 04:45 PM
Dr. Noah
May 26 2005, 01:04 PM
You must take certain things as fact even though they haven't been proven in every corner of the universe and in every dimension. 

If we didn't, we wouldn't have cool stuff like internal combustion engines and cell phones and computers and rockets to the moon.

Gee, that sounds a lot like... faith.

And that is exactly the point I was making. The primary difference between religion and science is that religion doesn't kid itself that faith is part and parcel of the deal. When you have a bunch of mathematicians sitting around and coming up with a theory that explains every single thing in existence, a theory which makes a whole lot of sense, so much so that it is increasingly being accepted by physicists but it can't be tested, you are talking faith. In fact, when you think about it, the very idea that mathematics is somehow an accurate description of reality takes an astounding leap of faith to believe. Anyway, a key question is: Is this faith justified? Probably so, but faith it is.
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Hoss
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Don't make me use my bare hands on you.
Dr. Noah
May 26 2005, 02:28 PM
Isn't it funny? 

I never thought I would be on a Star Trek board trying to convince people that gravity exists.

38, if you would prefer, I can qualify it by saying that we know gravity exists in the parts of the universe we have observed so far.  What you are arguing is that there is no absolute fact unless all possibilities have been observed and recorded.  I understand your point of view, but I cannot agree with it.

You aren't disagreeing with me, you're disagreeing with Aristotle.

Besides, a good scientists doesn't make assumptions, draw conclusions based on incomplete data or accept on faith some fact.
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who
Have light saber. Will travel.
I think I originally stated that science is a religion. This is one definition of "religion" from the dictionary:

": a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith"

First, science is based on the belief (faith) that the underlying basis of the universe is matter/energy. The universe is independent of our minds and could exist without mind. It also is based on the belief that if something cannot be observed or measured then it does not exist (or at least is not important). Consciousness is explained as an epiphenomia of electrical activity in the brain. The mind, thought, emotions, perceptions cannot even be addressed by science.

Gravity and light are sometimes described as particles, as waves, as matter, as energy, as force, or perhaps strings (whatever they are). Science cannot yet even explain what light or gravity are.

In the view of science we are born into the world to pass on our genes and then die. That is that. Science leaves out a big part of reality that we know including our minds, thoughts, emotions, and perceptions as we experience them. Everything is just chemical-electrical activity in the brain.

Another contrasting belief is that everything is thought in our mind. This includes all of our perceptions including all of science. Perhaps the best analogy is the world created by the machine in the movie "The Matrix". The difference is that our mind creates our interwoven worlds of perception rather than a machine. Science works because we believe it does. Since we believe it we can use it. One may scoff at this view of reality if one's faith in science as religion keeps one's mind closed to other possibilities.

who
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who
Have light saber. Will travel.
Dr. Noah
May 26 2005, 03:28 PM
Isn't it funny?

I never thought I would be on a Star Trek board trying to convince people that gravity exists.

It is not a matter of gravity existing (at least in time), it is that science cannot explain exactly what it is or what causes it. It has various models that it builds to try to explain or predict. It often explains it by something else that cannot be explained such as a force.

If you think that Star Trek is science then please give a scientific explanation of how dilithium(?) works (we could use the energy) and also warp theory including how to build a stable warp field.
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Franko
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who
May 26 2005, 06:20 PM

Gravity and light are sometimes described as particles, as waves, as matter, as energy, as force, or perhaps strings (whatever they are). Science cannot yet even explain what light or gravity are.




It can't ??? Soooooo..... the space shuttle goes up into orbit and comes back based on .......... faith ?



I understand your argument concerning science and religion, but let's not get too carried away.


Without science you'd still be living in a cave wondering when it's safe to go to the water hole.





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Fesarius
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Admiral
Science rocks! :)
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8247
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Apparently we look like this now
If you read this thread backwards, you'd be shocked that it started off talking about Air America. :lol:
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CV6 Enterprise
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8247
May 26 2005, 10:26 PM
If you read this thread backwards, you'd be shocked that it started off talking about Air America. :lol:

I know, this has gotta be the mother of all tangents :yes:
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8247
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Apparently we look like this now
CV6...Have you ever listened to that hate fest?
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Franko
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8247
May 26 2005, 07:26 PM
If you read this thread backwards, you'd be shocked that it started off talking about Air America. :lol:



As usual, I often read these theads in reverse when coming in late. :ermm:


Hmmmm..... I sense "creationism" and Intel Design lurking in the tulips in this thread.


And bashing my BABE Ann Coulter..... not coming back to this thread.



(stomps out of thread clutching physics 101 textbook)


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24thcenstfan
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Something Wicked This Fae Comes
CV6 Enterprise
May 26 2005, 11:27 PM
8247
May 26 2005, 10:26 PM
If you read this thread backwards, you'd be shocked that it started off talking about Air America.  :lol:

I know, this has gotta be the mother of all tangents :yes:

Yes, and no. The thread was about Air America, but Stem Cell research was a topic being discussed on the program. That snowballed into this scientific discussion.

It seems to be a logical tangent (IMO).

At least they aren’t talking about movies or something similar. :lol:


Hopefully someone will come in and tie this conversation back in with Air America and Stem Cell Research. :D
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8247
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Apparently we look like this now
Franko
May 26 2005, 10:35 PM
8247
May 26 2005, 07:26 PM
If you read this thread backwards, you'd be shocked that it started off talking about Air America.  :lol:



As usual, I often read these theads in reverse when coming in late. :ermm:


Hmmmm..... I sense "creationism" and Intel Design lurking in the tulips in this thread.


And bashing my BABE Ann Coulter..... not coming back to this thread.



(stomps out of thread clutching physics 101 textbook)

I didnt bash your babe... :lol: :lol:
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24thcenstfan
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Something Wicked This Fae Comes
^^But I did.
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8247
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Apparently we look like this now
How dare you!!!!!!!

24-L
C- 49

:lol:
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