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I listened to Air America today
Topic Started: May 25 2005, 01:11 PM (1,199 Views)
Dr. Noah
Sistertrek's Asian Correspondant
Gravity can be proven. And there are several scientific laws such as Newton's laws of motion, Laws of thermodynamics, etc.

Good job psyfi. String theory (at present) is untestable as is most of quantum theory, however, most people don't understand quantum theory anyway, but string theory was arrived at based on hard data collected from particle collisions.
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Hoss
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Don't make me use my bare hands on you.
Dr. Noah
May 26 2005, 11:40 AM
Gravity can be proven. And there are several scientific laws such as Newton's laws of motion, Laws of thermodynamics, etc.

Good job psyfi. String theory (at present) is untestable as is most of quantum theory, however, most people don't understand quantum theory anyway, but string theory was arrived at based on hard data collected from particle collisions.

Gravity cannot be proven, there is currently debate on whether or not it is a real force as it does not coincide mathematically on all physical levels the way the other theoretical forces do. String 'theory' is one proposed answer to that question. But, string theory is untestable, right?
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Hoss
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Dr. Noah
May 26 2005, 11:40 AM
Gravity can be proven. And there are several scientific laws such as Newton's laws of motion, Laws of thermodynamics, etc.

Good job psyfi. String theory (at present) is untestable as is most of quantum theory, however, most people don't understand quantum theory anyway, but string theory was arrived at based on hard data collected from particle collisions.

No, string theory is a bunch of math that some people worked out to try to unify quantum physics with cosmology.
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CV6 Enterprise
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May 26 2005, 01:05 PM
Dr. Noah
May 26 2005, 11:40 AM
Gravity can be proven.  And there are several scientific laws such as Newton's laws of motion, Laws of thermodynamics, etc. 

Good job psyfi.  String theory (at present) is untestable as is most of quantum theory, however, most people don't understand quantum theory anyway, but string theory was arrived at based on hard data collected from particle collisions.

No, string theory is a bunch of math that some people worked out to try to unify quantum physics with cosmology.

and here I thought it was explaining why my shoe strings keep breaking. :D
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Dr. Noah
Sistertrek's Asian Correspondant
Yes, based on hard data from particle collisions.

Gravity is a fact. It exists. I don't know how you can question the existence of gravity.
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CV6 Enterprise
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Dr. Noah
May 26 2005, 01:22 PM
Gravity is a fact. It exists. I don't know how you can question the existence of gravity.

Just look at Don King's hair, that'll prove gravity is just a theroy :D
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Hoss
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Dr. Noah
May 26 2005, 12:22 PM
Yes, based on hard data from particle collisions. 

Gravity is a fact.  It exists.  I don't know how you can question the existence of gravity.

I didn't know that you were a physicist. Some physicists have postulated that gravity may be an effect rather than a force.

It is not a fact until it can be proven that it always happens everywhere in every dimension of the universe and you can't.

If it is a fact why does it affect large objects like you, me and the planet jupiter completely differently than if affects very small objects? It seems to be a force related to mass, but not in all circumstances. Gravity is the hole in our scientific paradymn, it is ironic that you have chosen it as your example of the absolute facts of science. And no one has ever detected a graviton in any partical experiment.

Also there are several 'string theories'. They fall under the blanket label of string theory, but in the end, they are formulas that seem to give a desired result. Hardly a fact.

They also created an invisible form of matter called dark matter because it answers why gravity doesn't behave well. You just can see it anywhere, but its everywhere, except here. :lol:

The problem with science is that there are many scientist who do what you just did and proclaim things as fact and close their mind to other possibilities because they want so hard for things to be a certain way. They become scientific zealots.
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Dr. Noah
Sistertrek's Asian Correspondant
You must take certain things as fact even though they haven't been proven in every corner of the universe and in every dimension.

If we didn't, we wouldn't have cool stuff like internal combustion engines and cell phones and computers and rockets to the moon.
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Darthsith
Ensign
there are certain things you take as fact.

It is a fact that if I let go of this pen I am holding it will fall to the ground, that is a fact that I can prove an infinite times in an infinite amount of trials. Why it has fallen to the ground is still a mystery. Some people have tried to prove why it is so, they have evidence to back up their clams but they can not prove it with out a shadow of a doubt and that is why their theories are not facts.

It is a fact that if I take this pen and I take the computer in front of me to the moon and drop them they will fall to the ground at the exact same speed irrespective of their mass. That is a fact that I can prove an infinite amount of times in an infinite amount of trials. Why they fall to the ground is still a mystery. Some people have tried to prove why it is so, they have evidence to back up their clams but they can not prove it with out a shadow of a doubt and that is why their theories are not facts.

It is a fact that there is a plethora of different life forms on this planet. I just have to go out side and count the different ones I see to prove that fact. How there came to be a plethora of different life forms is still a mystery. Some people have tried to prove why it is so, they have evidence to back up their clams but they can not prove it with out a shadow of a doubt and that is why their theories are not facts.

The reason we have cool stuff like internal combustion engines and cell phones and computers and rockets to the moon, when not all the theories behind the products have been proven, is because engineers are not scientist. An engineer will things work even if they don’t fully understand the science behind it. An engineer doesn’t need to know where gravity comes form or how it came to be in order to devise a way to over come it.


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gvok
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Wait a second. Are you people actually arguing about whether gravity exists?
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Hoss
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Dr. Noah
May 26 2005, 01:04 PM
You must take certain things as fact even though they haven't been proven in every corner of the universe and in every dimension.

If we didn't, we wouldn't have cool stuff like internal combustion engines and cell phones and computers and rockets to the moon.

No, I mustn't.

And you can be convinced enough of a theory to develop a product to comply with this theory with a reasonable chance of it working. I am doing this as you read this. But at the extremes, it still isn't fact.

Unless you sample the gravitational situation on planets in a galaxy 10 billion light years ago, 10 billion years ago, you cannot claim gravity some absolute fact. In practical every day usage, gravity has a consistent record of always pulling you and me toward the center of the earth.
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Fesarius
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Quote:
 
Wait a second. Are you people actually arguing about whether gravity exists?

Gvok,

No one in this thread understands the gravity of the situation. :sick: ;)

Quote:
 
Gravity is a fact. It exists. I don't know how you can question the existence of gravity.

Noah,

Gravity exists, and I cannot see it. Oxygen exists, and I cannot see it. God exists, and I cannot see Him. The Bible exists, and I can see it and read it. And, God is described in it as existing.

You have your orders. ;) :)
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Dr. Noah
Sistertrek's Asian Correspondant
Isn't it funny?

I never thought I would be on a Star Trek board trying to convince people that gravity exists.

38, if you would prefer, I can qualify it by saying that we know gravity exists in the parts of the universe we have observed so far. What you are arguing is that there is no absolute fact unless all possibilities have been observed and recorded. I understand your point of view, but I cannot agree with it.
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Fesarius
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Admiral
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I never thought I would be on a Star Trek board trying to convince people that gravity exists.

Noah,

You know what is equally strange? Spock had to make a case for it (gravity) in an episode of TOS. I post it here because I have always loved this passage, and I love that episode. His reasoning was as follows:

Then how can you dispute the finding of the log?
I do not dispute it.
I merely state that it is wrong.
Oh? On what do you base that statement?
I know the captain. He is in--
Please instruct the witness not to speculate.
Lieutenant, I am half Vulcanian.
Vulcanians do not speculate.
I speak from pure logic.
If I let go of a hammer
on a planet that has a positive gravity,
I need not see it fall to know that it has, in fact, fallen.
- I do not see what that has to-- - Gentlemen,
human beings have characteristics
just as inanimate objects do.
It is impossible for Captain Kirk
to act out of panic or malice.
- It is not his nature. - In your opinion.
Yes. In my opinion.
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Admiralbill_gomec
UberAdmiral
Dr. Noah
May 26 2005, 01:04 PM
You must take certain things as fact even though they haven't been proven in every corner of the universe and in every dimension.

If we didn't, we wouldn't have cool stuff like internal combustion engines and cell phones and computers and rockets to the moon.

Gee, that sounds a lot like... faith.
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