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The ISS; Is it a multi million dollar failure?
Topic Started: May 17 2005, 04:05 PM (461 Views)
doctortobe
Speak softly, and carry a 57 megaton stick!
Sure thing somerled, just don't hold your breath.
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captain_proton_au
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A Robot in Disguise

The shuttles are to complex any way.

It would be good if NASA could start from a new design, but without delverables they wouldnt get there funding
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Minuet
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Fleet Admiral Assistant wRench, Chief Supper Officer
Official Administrative Comments

Somerled and Dwayne - I removed a large number of posts. You might actually have made some on topic comments but it was hard to tell between the insults and BS passed around.

If you are upset that you lost some content then please consider using a better tone next time.

End Offical Adminstrative Comments
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Dwayne
Profanity deleted by Hoss
Minuet
May 22 2005, 06:05 PM
Official Administrative Comments

Somerled and Dwayne - I removed a large number of posts. You might actually have made some on topic comments but it was hard to tell between the insults and BS passed around.

If you are upset that you lost some content then please consider using a better tone next time.

End Offical Adminstrative Comments

THAT IS NOT FAIR ... I DARE YOU SHOW WHERE I INSULTED HIM AT ALL!!!

The wording of your post is all but an out-right admission you didn't read the exchange. Here's what it is, YOU ASSUMED it was going to be insults and just deleted a series of posts en mass. I'd bet my last dollar that was the case.

Thank God I'm using Google's desktop search utility, which cache's all webpages visited, so now I can recover what you deleted AND PROVE I never insulted somerled.

Thankfully I have my own web site, so I can put the evidence there and that will prevent you from deleting it again.

Now as for my last post which you deleted, I'm going to report that on this message, because it had nothing to do with somerled and his contention that only the Space Shuttle was capable of delivering items to the ISS.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I'll return to the original topic at hand ... is the ISS a failure.

CV6 Enterprise
May 17 2005, 04:05 PM
Then, on Mike Reagan's show last night, it was mentioned that there hadn't been any major scientific studies done on board, which was the whole reason for the station.

CV6, one thing I think must be addressed, or at the very least, made known, is that a scientific mission was not the original mission for the space station Freedom, of which this is a scaled down version. The mission GHW Bush defined for this space station was to serve as a stepping stone to the moon and to Mars...
Quote:
 
The expanded 'Dual Keel' Space Station 'Freedom' made a final comeback in 1989 when President Bush proposed a Moon base by 2001-2005 and missions to Mars by 2018. NASA estimated the 'Dual Keel' lunar spacecraft support facility, additional power generators, crew modules for 14-16 astronauts etc. would cost at least $1 billion.

I really don't consider an oxygen generator failing to be a failure of the platform ... after all, parts do wear out. The failure, in my opinion, is the failure to stick to the original mission and allowing petty political squabbling between politians and between nations to detemine the mission.

The various missions should be clearly defined and the ISS should be built to accommodate those missions.
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Minuet
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Fleet Admiral Assistant wRench, Chief Supper Officer
^^^ I never said that you did not make on topic comments.

But where they are preceeded with a "you are such an idiot" type of comment (note I said type of comment) they will be deleted.

If you don't want to lose your "real" comments then drop the insults. I can't be much clearer.
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Dwayne
Profanity deleted by Hoss
Minuet
May 22 2005, 09:03 PM
^^^ I never said that you did not make on topic comments.

But where they are preceeded with a "you are such an idiot" type of comment (note I said type of comment) they will be deleted.

If you don't want to lose your "real" comments then drop the insults. I can't be much clearer.

Which only proves to me you did not read what I had wrote.

At no time did I call somerled an idiot. The closest I came to that word or anything like it was when I wrote the following to somerled, "If anything, it is me that has been trying to break the nominal cycle of insults between us in this exchange, because I have yet to say that your words are idiotic nor have I claimed your argument inane. I have simply asked -- repeatedly -- for you to backup your assertion that the Space Shuttle is the only vehicle capable of delivering segments of the ISS and you have refused to do so."

I honestly think you're going way overboard, in that you're choosing to delete posts you have not completely read.
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Minuet
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Fleet Admiral Assistant wRench, Chief Supper Officer
I stand by my decision.

If you have a problem then send your copies to Wichita and she will discuss things with me. No more discussion of this on the board will be tolerated.

By the way - for someone who is such a stickler for the meanings of thier own words you should go back and read mine. I clearly stated that I was not giving a direct quote but only an example of the TYPE of comments you were BOTH making. You yourself - in your comments - refer to a "nominal cycle of insults between us" That is a flat out admission of your counter insults.

I repeat what I wrote earlier "If you are upset that you lost some content then please consider using a better tone next time."

If you choose to carry this on further on the board I will close this thread.
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somerled
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Admiral MacDonald RN
Minuet
May 22 2005, 10:37 PM
I stand by my decision.

If you have a problem then send your copies to Wichita and she will discuss things with me. No more discussion of this on the board will be tolerated.

By the way - for someone who is such a stickler for the meanings of thier own words you should go back and read mine. I clearly stated that I was not giving a direct quote but only an example of the TYPE of comments you were BOTH making. You yourself - in your comments - refer to a "nominal cycle of insults between us" That is a flat out admission of your counter insults.

I repeat what I wrote earlier "If you are upset that you lost some content then please consider using a better tone next time."

If you choose to carry this on further on the board I will close this thread.

Unfortunate that some worthwhile material that was on - topic was deleted .

I personally can't be bothered reposting these posts , though that would be easy enough to do , I am not accustomed to repeating myself , so I guess it's everyone else's loss .

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Admiralbill_gomec
UberAdmiral
MODERATOR COMMENT

I wish I hadn't gone out of town this past weekend, so I could have seen what was deleted. Oh well, what is done is done. I'm sorry that I could not have been here.

I am tempted to close this thread and repost the topic fresh, so that we can discuss the topic.

A few things: Folks, please remember that this is not the Politics thread. We want to talk about technology here, not a government's policy or practice, okay? If you have a problem with the way the US, or Britain, or Burma conducts its space program, take it to the Politics forum. If you want to flame (and yes, I will make a subjective judgment as to what is considered a flame in this forum, so if you don't like it, you will address me in PM), take it elsewhere.

We will NOT have the running battles of back and forth sniping in here. I myself must resist doing just this. In the future, I might just EDIT the comment made (and you'll have to take it up with me). I do NOT KNOW why we can't have a civil discussion about technology in here. We have had some controversial topics in here, and they have been discussed civilly. Why can't that carry through to all threads? In other threads, some posters seem to feel the need to prove their absolute mastery of a topic and lord it over others. Others simply want to push a certain agenda or anti-agenda. Folks, that gets tiresome.

Let's stick to the matters at hand, try and stay on topic, and enjoy this, okay?

END OF MODERATOR COMMENT

Let's get back to talking about the ISS, okay?
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somerled
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Admiral MacDonald RN
Admiralbill_gomec
May 23 2005, 10:23 AM
MODERATOR COMMENT

I wish I hadn't gone out of town this past weekend, so I could have seen what was deleted. Oh well, what is done is done. I'm sorry that I could not have been here.

I am tempted to close this thread and repost the topic fresh, so that we can discuss the topic.

A few things: Folks, please remember that this is not the Politics thread. We want to talk about technology here, not a government's policy or practice, okay? If you have a problem with the way the US, or Britain, or Burma conducts its space program, take it to the Politics forum. If you want to flame (and yes, I will make a subjective judgment as to what is considered a flame in this forum, so if you don't like it, you will address me in PM), take it elsewhere.

We will NOT have the running battles of back and forth sniping in here. I myself must resist doing just this. In the future, I might just EDIT the comment made (and you'll have to take it up with me). I do NOT KNOW why we can't have a civil discussion about technology in here. We have had some controversial topics in here, and they have been discussed civilly. Why can't that carry through to all threads? In other threads, some posters seem to feel the need to prove their absolute mastery of a topic and lord it over others. Others simply want to push a certain agenda or anti-agenda. Folks, that gets tiresome.

Let's stick to the matters at hand, try and stay on topic, and enjoy this, okay?

END OF MODERATOR COMMENT

Let's get back to talking about the ISS, okay?

That is a very good question . (People seen to prefer to resort to personal attacks rather than actually addressing the information given in discussions here.)

On topic I mentioned that there was insufficient lift capacity to allow the expansion of the ISS with the demise (all be it temporary ??) of the shuttle program , and that was a key reason why the ISS was why ISS has become a failure in many people's eyes.
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Dwayne
Profanity deleted by Hoss
And as both me and Adm. Bill pointed out, the Delta IV Heavy has the lift capacity.
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Admiralbill_gomec
UberAdmiral
Information on the Delta IV Heavy...

http://www.space.com/missionlaunches/delta...nch_041221.html

Payload for the unmanned Delta IV: 23000kgs
Payload for the shuttle: 28000kgs (including crew, life support, sundries, and cargo)

The largest components launched were 15,900 kg and 15,000 kg, and both were launched by unmanned rocket.
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