| We hope you enjoy your visit. You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our community, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free. Join our community! If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features: |
| is God perfect? | |
|---|---|
| Tweet Topic Started: Apr 20 2005, 09:23 AM (736 Views) | |
| 24thcenstfan | Apr 20 2005, 01:22 PM Post #31 |
|
Something Wicked This Fae Comes
|
It is this statement (partially) that gives me pause. If in fact we are created in His image, then could this not possibly mean he has some of the same imperfections that we contain? Anyway, I'm just asking a question. Definitely not trying to offend anyone else's beliefs.
|
| Offline | Profile | | Quote | ^ |
| Fesarius | Apr 20 2005, 01:26 PM Post #32 |
|
Admiral
|
^^^ Conversely, it may mean that in being created we somehow acquired or were given some of God's nearly-perfect characteristics.
|
| Offline | Profile | | Quote | ^ |
| psyfi | Apr 20 2005, 01:26 PM Post #33 |
|
psyfi
|
Fes, all I am trying to say is that without a clear understanding of the ‘perfect/imperfect’ construct to which you are referring, it is, for me, the same as you saying, “God created Garzorntickfuddmel human beings.” Makes it hard to say, “yes, He did,”or “no, He didn’t.” I can supply my own definition and then refute or support it, but it doesn’t feel like a two-way discussion. It may be obvious to you that human beings are imperfect but perhaps not so obvious in the attempt to specify it, at least not to me. For example, in reading what you have written here, I am thinking that you mean we are imperfect because we don’t know all the answers to existence (fallen mindset–‘be ye transformed by the renewal of your mind) and/or we are not like Christ, or, and/or we have not invited Christ into our lives to be The Lord of our Lives. But then you said, 'meet our Creator' in an earlier post, so I am not sure if this is somehow yet a different notion. Regarding mysticism, my earliest school years were spent at a school run by Carmelite nuns, so mystic experiences were talked about night and day, even to very young children. We are all free to believe such experiences exist or not, I was just trying to get a feel for what you meant. |
| Offline | Profile | | Quote | ^ |
| Fesarius | Apr 20 2005, 01:32 PM Post #34 |
|
Admiral
|
Psyfi, That is part of it. IMO, we are imperfect because we are not God. I do not believe it possible to be perfect in any sense of the word while we live as human beings. Sin has much to do with this, as sin moves one farther away from God (and farther away from that which is perfect). When we die, and hopefully meet our Creator, then and only then will we even 'know' what it means to truly be perfect. I am reminded of our quest to 'Be perfect as your Father [whom] is perfect.'
|
| Offline | Profile | | Quote | ^ |
| psyfi | Apr 20 2005, 01:42 PM Post #35 |
|
psyfi
|
Again, we need to specify what do you mean by perfect and by imperfections. Is it imperfect to be a human being with free choice? However, my understanding of "In His Image" as it relates to the bible means two things: (1) we are spirits; (2) we are love. Now here you can talk about imperfection, for how is it that Love created beings of Love and yet in this world we see so much loveless action? But I think this goes right back to the idea of free choice. Does free choice make us imperfect? |
| Offline | Profile | | Quote | ^ |
| psyfi | Apr 20 2005, 01:49 PM Post #36 |
|
psyfi
|
OK, I am honing in what you mean now. One more question. Would you say that human beings perfect before the Fall? |
| Offline | Profile | | Quote | ^ |
| Fesarius | Apr 20 2005, 01:53 PM Post #37 |
|
Admiral
|
^^^ Yes, in the 'time that then was.' The 'Deuteronomic Cycle' then kicks in (after the Fall). At least this is what my O.T. Hermeneutics professor taught me.
|
| Offline | Profile | | Quote | ^ |
| iancook | Apr 20 2005, 03:31 PM Post #38 |
|
Unregistered
|
I don't think free choice makes us imprerfect, but choosing bad things is what makes us imperfect. Do I think God is perfect? Absolutely. The central basis of the Christian faith relies on a perfect God. IMO. Jesus Said; Matt. 5: 48 48. Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect. Our whole purpose in this life is to become like our Heavenly Father, who is perfect. That has been Gods plan all along. We are to here on this earth so that we can be tried and tested. When this life is over, we will be judged according to what choices we have made and how we lived our lives. If we demonstrated that we tried to do what was right and had sufficient faith in God, then the blood of Christ will wash away all of our sins and we will be made perfect. That's what I beleive. (James: 2) |
| | Quote | ^ | |
| Fesarius | Apr 20 2005, 03:35 PM Post #39 |
|
Admiral
|
Ian, I knew I shouldn't have paraphrased. It's so much better when scripture is consulted.
|
| Offline | Profile | | Quote | ^ |
| iancook | Apr 20 2005, 03:42 PM Post #40 |
|
Unregistered
|
It helps to have an online bible handy.
|
| | Quote | ^ | |
| Fesarius | Apr 20 2005, 03:48 PM Post #41 |
|
Admiral
|
^^^ Is that the KJV? |
| Offline | Profile | | Quote | ^ |
| iancook | Apr 20 2005, 04:09 PM Post #42 |
|
Unregistered
|
Yep, the only one I use. |
| | Quote | ^ | |
| fireh8er | Apr 20 2005, 04:40 PM Post #43 |
|
I'm Captain Kirk!
|
Yes. |
| Offline | Profile | | Quote | ^ |
| psyfi | Apr 20 2005, 05:37 PM Post #44 |
|
psyfi
|
Okay, so God, perfect in every way, created (at first) perfect beings. However, came the fall in which human beings chose to trade the perceptual mode of Truth vs. Falsehood for the clearly forbidden to them perceptual mode of Good vs. Evil, and imperfection is introduced in to the human mind and heart (maybe spirit). Now we have the scripture which Ian quoted which is, "Be ye perfect, even as ye Father who is in Heaven is perfect" and mankind begins the long journey back to perfection. What is interesting to me about that scripture is that Jesus would not have said that to people, did He not believe that they could achieve it, perhaps even in short order. If I am understanding you then, you don't believe that God who is Perfect created imperfect human beings. Rather, you believe that He created perfect beings who by an act of their will introduced into themselves imperfection. Is that correct? |
| Offline | Profile | | Quote | ^ |
| ds9074 | Apr 20 2005, 06:00 PM Post #45 |
|
Admiral
|
Well a lots been posted so sorry if I cover some of whats already been said. Also I'm no theology student, these are just my random thoughts. Of course God is perfect. I believe he is an all perfect being. God has already created "perfect" beings in one sense - the angels - but he wants us to be something more than them. God wants us to come to him and love him because we want to not because we are built to. Thats why the "apple" was in the "garden" in the first place. We were built with the capacity to choose between right and wrong, to judge what is right and wrong. No other creature on earth has that capacity. God desperately wants us to choose the right path and to love him but he knows that we cant choose if their is no alternative. Imagine an election. If there was only one candidate their victory would be a hollow one and democracy wouldnt really have been at work. It is the fact that people had a choice and chose the victor which gives them their mandate. In a sense the devil is the opposition candidate trying to pick up votes but he is a nessasary player. Its in Gods power to abolish the devil but he doesnt because that would leave no alternative. Why does their need to be "punishment" for sins? Because far from taking away our freedom to choose it reinforces it. If everyone went to heaven regardless then we wouldnt have an alternative which facilitates a choice. There has to be a hell so that people can choose to believe in and love God and go to heaven. Remember though that God does not set out hoping to punish us for sinning. In fact he wants to avoid it so much that he gave his Son, Jesus Christ, that all sins may be forgiven provided we repent, recognise them and are sorry. Why would anyone want to be imperfect? I dont think thats something people have as an objective, but they choose short term gratification over potential 'perfection'. Its important to remember that no human being on earth is perfect - and that includes the new Pope - because we are all sinners. We can choose however, through belief and love of God and by accepting and repenting of our sins, the option of eternal life as perfect beings in heaven with the almighty.
I think we are made in Gods image in that unlike all other creatures we have the capacity to think in an abstract way and we can judge what is right and what is wrong. The difference is that we are falliable whereas God is infalliable. We dont have complete knowledge whereas he does. We are open to temptation whereas he isnt. Therefore whereas God is incapable of evil we are quite capable of choosing it.
Exactly. God created us as 'perfect' (if limited) beings in a 'perfect' world (Eden) but he gave us the ability to choose to reject that, to choose the wrong path (symbolised by the apple). We did stray and that is the fall of man. Possibly a better description than perfect for our original form is pure. Pure of heart but not perfect in a physical sense. Just look at the above quote, or I am sure read my writing, and you can see we are not perfect in a physical sense (ie typos). |
| Offline | Profile | | Quote | ^ |
| Go to Next Page | |
| « Previous Topic · Spiritual Journeys · Next Topic » |


1:52 PM Jul 11