Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]
We hope you enjoy your visit.


You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our community, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free.


Join our community!


If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features:

Username:   Password:
Add Reply
What song; do you have stuck in your head?
Topic Started: Feb 16 2005, 03:56 AM (11,375 Views)
Sophie
Member Avatar
Keeper of the spider-cats
tears in heaven
Offline | Profile | Quote | ^
 
Deleted User
Deleted User

Again? :lol:
| Quote | ^
 
Sophie
Member Avatar
Keeper of the spider-cats
yes, again.
Offline | Profile | Quote | ^
 
Fesarius
Member Avatar
Admiral
Quote:
 
EDIT: And doesn't music have formal structure (that's what distinguishes it from noise)?

Defiant,

I think that what distinguishes definite pitch (music?) from indefinite (it can be noise--such as 'white noise'--but it could also be legitimate percussion) pitch are the structure and characteristics of the partials (overtones) for each instrument and voices. The mathematics of it are quite complex (beyond me, actually). I can speak to it pragmatically, however. If you were to sing in a shower, the fundmental note you sing produces several hundred (actually, I believe the number is infinite, and beyond our audible comprehension) notes above this. That is why the music on a page is only 'some' of the actual music that one hears--even though non-musicians, and probably many musicians as well, are not necessarily aware of this. It is just part of the entire experience. When I sing a note (preferably a low one, so that more of the notes produced above it are audible to me), I can hear about thirteen or fourteen notes above that one sung note. Each instrument has partials that are peculiar to it, that when produced, gives us the 'sound' we hear that helps us to differentiate between (e.g.) a snare drum and a French Horn. (Some might say the two sound alike, but they don't actually--ha ha to Minuet. ;))

Somerled or Doctortobe could help with the mathematics of this, I believe. (I've bolded their handles in the hopes that they will see this post.)
Offline | Profile | Quote | ^
 
Fesarius
Member Avatar
Admiral
LOL--I just realized that my post makes it look like one *has* to sing in a shower. No, you don't. I just used that as an example. :rotfl:
Offline | Profile | Quote | ^
 
DEFIANT
Commodore
Thanks FES, I believe I know what you were refering to....Harmonics (not quite the same as Harmony).

But the reason I asked that was because (I don't have all my notes here) in a post you said that something(I forgot what piece) was a song because it had formal structure. But music has formal structure as well. I was just trying to find the distinguishing line between song and music...though I think that songs have be music.
Offline | Profile | Quote | ^
 
Fesarius
Member Avatar
Admiral
Defiant,

Yes, harmonics is correct.

Quote:
 
But the reason I asked that was because (I don't have all my notes here) in a post you said that something(I forgot what piece) was a song because it had formal structure. But music has formal structure as well. I was just trying to find the distinguishing line between song and music...though I think that songs have be music.

Oh, I see. By 'formal structure' I meant sonata allegro form, song form, concerto form, fugal form, German Bar form, etc.--not form and structure in the electro-acoustic (i.e., partials, harmonics, overtones, etc.) sense. And yes, much music does have structure, although not all music needs to have structure. For example aleatoric music, and some heterophonic music, may not have structure, unless one were to say that everything has structure, simply because it exists in real time, and occupies space (seriously).

Offline | Profile | Quote | ^
 
DEFIANT
Commodore
Fesarius
Apr 27 2005, 12:05 PM
And yes, much music does have structure, although not all music needs to have structure.  For example aleatoric music, and some heterophonic music, may not have structure,

I didn't mean structure as in something composed by a human...randomly blowing on a horn will produce harmonics even in one pitch (that's all I was thinking).

Quote:
 
unless one were to say that everything has structure, simply because it exists in real time, and occupies space (seriously).

yes, but I think there is more than one type of structure

thanks Fes
Offline | Profile | Quote | ^
 
Fesarius
Member Avatar
Admiral
^^^
I'd be interested in hearing of the other types of structure. Do you mean non-finite? Or perhaps not occurring in real time? Compelling.
Offline | Profile | Quote | ^
 
DEFIANT
Commodore
a tangent's tangent tangent.....I think I'm going to pass out.

I was just saying that music structure may be different than atomic structure.....I'm pretty sure the path of electrons doesn't produce harmonics (unless we just haven't decoded the chaos). Or we could get into string theory.
But, if something doesn't move it doesn't produce a sound (unless a listener moves in relation to it), yet that something has structure. Or if something moves in a vacuum.

SIGH, I've been on too long and I don't know what I'm talking about anymore.
Offline | Profile | Quote | ^
 
Fesarius
Member Avatar
Admiral
Defiant,

Actually, I don't think we were really all that far off on a tangent. I think it's preferable to starting a new thread.

You're making sense, I just don't have the tools to answer your question adequately. But there are others who post here that do. I hope they see your posts. :)
Offline | Profile | Quote | ^
 
Sophie
Member Avatar
Keeper of the spider-cats
someone's in the kitchen with dinah
Offline | Profile | Quote | ^
 
Deleted User
Deleted User

Oh dear. They used to sing that in Infant school!
| Quote | ^
 
Fesarius
Member Avatar
Admiral
I've had Cygnus X-1 (Rush) in my head since last night. I blame it all on Swidden. Why? No reason. He was just here. :whistle: :P ;)
Offline | Profile | Quote | ^
 
~Luthien~
Member Avatar
Little Sister Of Sistertrek
Ashlee Simpson - Autobiography,

but for some reason i wake up with the worst songs ever...Usher,Britney Spears,50 Cent...what the hell am i thinking??
o.O
Offline | Profile | Quote | ^
 
Go to Next Page
« Previous Topic · Ten Forward · Next Topic »
Add Reply

Tweet
comments powered by Disqus