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Catholic Church buries aborted babies
Topic Started: Jan 24 2005, 09:49 AM (1,285 Views)
Coda
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Thank God I'm not Catholic. I have morals.
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Dwayne
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Minuet
Jan 24 2005, 10:49 AM
What right does this church, or any other, have to perform a religious rite on those who are not members of said religion?

Not attempting to put words in your mouth, but if a person argues a fetus is just a lump of tissue ... in other words, not human ... then how can they protest it's not a member of a particular religion and therefore a religious rite not performed on said fetus?

Seems very convoluted logic.
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Fesarius
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Quote:
 
Thank God I'm not Catholic. I have morals.

Twilight,

I too am not a Catholic. However, why would you write something like that? Do you truly believe all Catholics have no morals?
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24thcenstfan
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Something Wicked This Fae Comes
Twilight
Jan 24 2005, 07:36 PM
Thank God I'm not Catholic. I have morals.

I am not even going to defend you this time. Because with those comments, you pretty much confirmed what everyone else was saying about you on this thread.

Both sexist and anti-Catholic comments in less than one week. You aren't making a very good impression Twilight.
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Fesarius
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^^^
I don't think I would even write that as a joke, and some of my jokes can be quite tasteless.
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Minuet
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Where to begin :huh:

First - Twilight - take your bigotry and stuff it. This happened at one church. There is no proof that the action taken reflects the belief or morals of the church at large :realmad:

Second - Dwayne - I specifically posted the link to the updated article because it indicated that what occurred happened not only to aborted fetuses, but also to a number of fetuses that had miscarried through no fault of the parents. The reason I wanted to show this is because I want to take this discussion beyond the regular fights we have here on abortion and focus on the imposition of one's beliefs on others. That is the real issue here and proof of that is the use of non aborted fetuses in the burial.

Wichita - I hope I have not offended you. I do try to understand everyone's point of view. That is why I was hesitant to post the article. When I did post it I did not pass judgement, I only asked for your thoughts on it. I am interested in hearing how the article mistated Mormon beliefs. I understand the difficulty in checking up on every name submitted. The problem obviously lies with some individuals who have submitted names they should not, as opposed to being the fault of the church at large. Similar to how I have stated that I would not blame all Roman Catholics for what has occured here.
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Dwayne
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Minuet
Jan 24 2005, 07:58 PM
Dwayne - I specifically posted the link to the updated article because it indicated that what occurred happened not only to aborted fetuses, but also to a number of fetuses that had miscarried through no fault of the parents. The reason I wanted to show this is because I want to take this discussion beyond the regular fights we have here on abortion and focus on the imposition of one's beliefs on others. That is the real issue here and proof of that is the use of non aborted fetuses in the burial.

I don't think it's disconsonant for the Catholic Church to bury both aborted and miscarried fetuses ... children. From the point of view of the Church, how both groups died matters, but probably not as much as the fact that a baby is dead in both cases. As such, the Church is attempting to see that those lives lost are disposed of with respect instead of disposed of like scraps in a slaughter house.

And as for imposing beliefs, if one believes that a lump of tissue was removed from the mothers body, then how can the burying of that lump of tissue be construed as an imposition of belief?

It's just a lump of tissue ... what would a person with the world view care if someone decided to bury it instead of burn it?
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Minuet
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Dwayne - I believe that parents in hospital that have lost a baby through a miscarriage are given a choice on how to dispose of the body. If the mortuary is not following through on thier wishes then they have performed a grave wrong. The church that followed through and accepted the children is just as wrong. If the parents did not specifically give permission to the church to bury the bodies then they do not have the right to bury the bodies. Seems simple to me.
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Admiralbill_gomec
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Twilight
Jan 24 2005, 06:36 PM
Thank God I'm not Catholic. I have morals.

Great, another anti-Catholic bigot.

EDIT: Sorry... just read his/her comment at the top of the page and replied. I didn't see the commentary from my fellow posters following that one.

Personally, as a Catholic, I would like an apology.

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Coda
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I would reply, but the religious emotion here is running this thread. And only one person asked, why I said that. I have already been condemned, over a quip.
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Fesarius
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^^^
I have not condemned you. But I do want to know what would lead you to that conclusion about all Catholics.
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Minuet
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Twilight
Jan 24 2005, 08:51 PM
I would reply, but the religious emotion here is running this thread. And only one person asked, why I said that. I have already been condemned, over a quip.

Yes - you have been condemned.

Your quips are not funny.

I am not Catholic. I am not even Christian, I am Jewish. Think about it. Could you get away with saying Jews have no morals and expect to escape without being called an anti-semite. Could you say it about Blacks and expect to escape without being called a bigot?

What makes it ok to say it about Catholics or any other Christian?
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Dandandat
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Time to put something here
Minuet
Jan 24 2005, 05:43 PM
Guys - I really don't think the real issue here is abortion. The real issue is the imposition of a particular religion on others who don't believe in it.

Dante - as an athiest how do you feel about that. Maybe not as strongly as I do, as it is much easier for a non believer to just shrug everything off as superstition that is just making the people doing the burials feel better. However, as a person who has a religion I am quite offended because this type of action is an attempt to devalue other religions.

I think that the mortuary should be sued for allowing this to happen and that the bodies should be exhumed and reburied in a non sectarian cemetary. The Catholic church should also take a long hard look at the leadership of this particular parish.

Since you are not the fetus I cant see how they are pushing anything on you. Unless as you pointed out, the fetus where from miscarriages, and I already said that changed things. But is it common for miscarriage victims to got to an "abortion" clinic?
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Dandandat
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Time to put something here
The Sisko
Jan 24 2005, 05:51 PM
What if someone decided they couldn't adequately take care of the child given their current situation and believe they would have a better shot with another family. (Some people actually believe in reincarnation, amazing, but true) They may regret their decision, but feel it was the right one.

Then they are murders. Because they are excepting that their fetus is alive and they are killing it. They may be killing it because they cant take care of it, but that does not make it right. Some people cant take care of their elderly grandmother either, are they right if they kill them?


Quote:
 
What if they were told the fetus is already so deformed that they would have a very difficult time living, if they were to survive at all?
If you believe it was alive, and killed it - you are a murder. Some times people get hurt and have a default time living, is it ok to kill them? If Christopher Reed’s wife felt he would be better off could see have killed him after his accident.


Quote:
 
Personally, I wouldn't pass judgment on someone without knowing their situation and personal beliefs.  But that's just me.
I am not passing judgment, they are making their own judgment I am just holding them to it.

There are only two possibilities, a fetus is “alive” or it is not. If it is alive and we kill it we are murderers, if it is not alive and we kill it we are no murderers. The argument for pro choice is that the woman caring the baby gets to decided if she believes that the Festus is alive or not (because science at this time can not answer the question adequately). If a woman decides that the fetuses is not alive and that abortion is right she has every right under the argument for pro choice to follow that actions. If a woman believes the child is alive yet still goes thought with an abortion is violating the argument for pro choice and she a murderer.
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Dandandat
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Time to put something here
24thcenstfan
Jan 24 2005, 05:54 PM
Dante,

Would you consider it murder for a woman to have her pregnancy terminated due to the high probability that the pregnancy could harm or kill her?  The situation being, she thought the fetus was alive, but it was an either or situation (the life of the fetus or her life).

I wouldn't.  I would consider it self-defense.  She should still be allowed to grieve without being called a murderer or having her right to do so questioned.

Incidentally, some of the women who had fetuses aborted (in the article first mentioned by CV6) did so for the very same reasons.  They certainly have a right to grieve and are not murderers in my opinion.

That’s a good question and I will admit that I did not think of that situation. Is it common for woman in this situation to go to "abortion" clinics? I would think woman with complications are going to go to a hospital for treatment not an "abortion" clinic.
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