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Hate crimes and hate speech
Topic Started: Jan 17 2005, 01:47 PM (843 Views)
Fesarius
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Admiral
^^^
Hoshi is with CP. ;)

As I mentioned, a crime is a crime. Whether one does it in hate or joyously is irrelevant.
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Dr. Noah
Sistertrek's Asian Correspondant
That ho.......sheee. :wow: :rolleyes: ;)

Admin: Feel free to delete this, I may have crossed the line, but Fes is ahead of me with the bad puns today.
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Fesarius
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Admiral
^^^
That explains why CP isn't posting at the moment. ;)
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Dr. Noah
Sistertrek's Asian Correspondant
Would you? :lol:
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Fesarius
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Admiral
^^^
If I weren't married. :)
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Dr. Noah
Sistertrek's Asian Correspondant
I meant that. As if Linda Park would be chasing me anyway!! :lol:
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Fesarius
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Admiral
I don't know about Linda Park. But what about Hoshi?
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Dr. Noah
Sistertrek's Asian Correspondant
Maybe in 150 years. ;)
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Fesarius
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Admiral
^^^
LOL! :)
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Franko
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Shower Moderator
The Sisko
Jan 19 2005, 08:29 AM

I think people are having a hard time understanding me. I am saying: Hate crimes should exist to deter organized terrorism against racial groups such as the KKK. We have a Patriot Act and a Dept. of Homeland security to guard against international terrorism. This is a law to protect citizens against domestic racial terrorism.



Hear ya, Sisko. And totally agree. And advocating violence toward a
minority group whether it be blacks or gays or Trekkies is not freedom of
speech; it is incitement to hurt innocent people. It is also in violation of
the US Constitution, I would reckon.


And Sisko also has a point IMO: the 40's and 50's weren't that long ago.
There are still persons within the Dem and Rep that are "segregationists"
at heart.

Very disturbing.

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Dr. Noah
Sistertrek's Asian Correspondant
Thanks Franko. ;)
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Admiralbill_gomec
UberAdmiral
Franko
Jan 19 2005, 11:07 PM
The Sisko
Jan 19 2005, 08:29 AM

I think people are having a hard time understanding me.  I am saying:  Hate crimes should exist to deter organized terrorism against racial groups such as the KKK.  We have a Patriot Act and a Dept. of Homeland security to guard against international terrorism.  This is a law to protect citizens against domestic racial terrorism. 



Hear ya, Sisko. And totally agree. And advocating violence toward a
minority group whether it be blacks or gays or Trekkies is not freedom of
speech; it is incitement to hurt innocent people. It is also in violation of
the US Constitution, I would reckon.


And Sisko also has a point IMO: the 40's and 50's weren't that long ago.
There are still persons within the Dem and Rep that are "segregationists"
at heart.

Very disturbing.

Once again, we have the law to deter people from committing crimes against others.

Would you consider murder a hate crime? If not, tell me why. Remember, I said murder, not negligent homicide. Acts of violence are acts of hate. There are already penalties against them.

I can see it now... enact hate crimes legislation... two white kids, say around 18, go to burglarize a house to pay for drugs... one says to the other, "Wait. We can't break into that house. Black people live there. Do you want to be charged with a hate crime?"... so instead they break into the house of an 80-year-old woman, steal her jewelry, beat her then shoot her... the old woman dies.

The kids are charged with what? Burglary? No. Murder.

Would it be a hate crime if I came to the Bay Area and decided to shoot you down because you are a Democrat, Sisko? Or would it be premeditated murder?

ALL CRIMES ARE HATE CRIMES. Legislation for "special groups" is ridiculous. ENFORCE THE LAWS ON THE BOOKS!
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Dr. Noah
Sistertrek's Asian Correspondant
Victimless crimes arn't hate crimes.

In order for you to understand my position, you will have to think outside AM radio rhetoric. There are organizations who encourage violence against minorities. In order to deter people from carrying out this rederick which is necessary because you have people who have huge meetings just to talk about how much they hate blacks, Jews, gays, etc. and get all fired up to do something about it.

So some of them get together and have a few too many and decide to take action on behalf of the rest of thier racist bigotted brothers and sisters and decide to drag a black man behind thier truck until he's dead. Or beat some gay kid until he's dead. Or set fire to a black church, or burn a cross in someone's front yard.

Don't pretend these things don't happen AB, because they do ALL THE TIME. Maybe you don't see it behind your white picket fence in your gated community, but it happens more than it should.

Hate crimes are there as EXTRA deterent because there are organizations that encourage such behavior.

Just as we have laws to protect us against international terrorism, hate crime laws are laws that exist to protect people against domestic terrorism.

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Admiralbill_gomec
UberAdmiral
The Sisko
Jan 20 2005, 10:01 AM
Victimless crimes arn't hate crimes.

In order for you to understand my position, you will have to think outside AM radio rhetoric.  There are organizations who encourage violence against minorities.  In order to deter people from carrying out this rederick which is necessary because you have people who have huge meetings just to talk about how much they hate blacks, Jews, gays, etc. and get all fired up to do something about it. 

So some of them get together and have a few too many and decide to take action on behalf of the rest of thier racist bigotted brothers and sisters and decide to drag a black man behind thier truck until he's dead.  Or beat some gay kid until he's dead.  Or set fire to a black church, or burn a cross in someone's front yard. 

Don't pretend these things don't happen AB, because they do ALL THE TIME.  Maybe you don't see it behind your white picket fence in your gated community, but it happens more than it should. 

Hate crimes are there as EXTRA deterent because there are organizations that encourage such behavior. 

Just as we have laws to protect us against international terrorism, hate crime laws are laws that exist to protect people against domestic terrorism.

First of all, take a chill pill. You're wound up tighter than a cat in a roomful of rocking chairs.

Second, there is absolutely no such thing as a victimless crime. None. You're thinking something financial or some petty theft, but there are ALWAYS victims.

As for thinking "outside of AM radio rhetoric" I'll let that INSULT slide... this ONCE! :angry:

Yes, there are organizations that encourage violence against minorities. I know you're going to blow your stack when you hear this, but "so what!" These people should be PROSECUTED TO THE FULLEST EXTENT OF THE LAW NO MATTER WHO THEY ASSAULT. Do you understand that? I don't care if the victim is a white male or a lesbian Mongolian female. It doesn't matter. They committed a crime. They pay. Simple.

Your mind is obviously blinded by some stereotype you might have seen in a movie somewhere, but when is the last time a group like oh, the Klan, got together, got "all liquored up" (to keep with your stereotype) and went out looking for Jews, or gays, maybe some "Meskins"?? Hmmm?

THEY DO NOT HAPPEN ALL THE TIME. Tell me when the last time this happened. Give me links. Don't give me your feelings, because I deal in fact. You are dealing in rhetoric and emotion. You first say they happen "ALL THE TIME" and then say "but it happens more than it should." Make up your damned mind.

By the way, I live on 24 acres and the fence out front is split rail. The nearest "gated community" is ten miles away.

Tell me which organizations actively encourage that behavior. Next tell me when the last time it happened was. Following that, tell me what penalty the perpetrators received?

Your argument is not based on fact, but on emotions. I remember your tale of coming to "racist" Texas. I think your emotions are clouded by whatever you perceived happened. I think you are, quite simply, naive.
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Dr. Noah
Sistertrek's Asian Correspondant
http://www.splcenter.org/intel/map/hate.jsp

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0004885.html

I have seen KKK rallies in both Nebraska and Ohio, and know what is said there.

You can think I am naieve if you like, that's your right, but remember who lives on an acerage and who is in one of the largest cities in the US everyday. I am not a kid, I am not sheltered. I have lived all across America as well as China and worked my way through college and into a career. I am married and own a home, and am considered intelligent and worldly by people who know me, so I really don't care what you think of me based on your disagreement with me on this issue.
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