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Was the murder of an outspoken Egyptian Coptic Christian and his family a Muslim hate crime?
Yes 9 (69.2%)
No 1 (7.7%)
Other 3 (23.1%)
Total Votes: 13
Was it a hate crime?
Topic Started: Jan 16 2005, 02:37 PM (768 Views)
Dwayne
Profanity deleted by Hoss
Making the rounds in the news...
Quote:
 
January 16, 2005 -- The father of a murdered New Jersey family was threatened for making anti-Muslim remarks online — and the gruesome quadruple slaying may have been the hateful retaliation, sources told The Post yesterday.

Hossam Armanious, 47, who along with his wife and two daughters was found stabbed to death in his Jersey City home early Friday, would regularly debate religion in a Middle Eastern chat room, one source said.

Armanious, an Egyptian Christian, was well known for expressing his Coptic beliefs and engaging in fiery back-and-forth with Muslims on the Web site paltalk.com.

He "had the reputation for being one of the most outspoken Egyptian Christians," said the source, who had close ties to the family.

The source, who had knowledge of the investigation, refused to specify the anti-Muslim statement. But he said cops told him they were looking into the exchanges as a possible motive.

The married father of two had recently been threatened by Muslim members of the Web site, said a fellow Copt and store clerk who uses the chat room.

"You'd better stop this bull---- or we are going to track you down like a chicken and kill you," was the threat, said the clerk, who was online at the time and saw the exchange.

 

But Armanious refused to back down, according to two sources who use the Web site.

Jersey City Mayor Jerramiah Healy would neither confirm nor deny that cops and prosecutors were looking into the religion motive, saying only that "nothing is being ruled out." But a relative of the mayor who answered the phone at Healy's home said there was information the murders were "religion-related."

"There are several theories we are looking into, but we are not commenting on any of them at this time," said Hudson County Assistant Prosecutor Guy Gregory.


Armanious' fervor apparently rubbed off on his daughter, Sylvia — who would have turned 16 yesterday.

"She was very religious and very opinionated," said Jessica Cimino, 15, a fellow sophomore at Dickenson HS.

A family member who viewed photos of the bloodbath said Sylvia seemed to have taken the most savage punishment.

"When we saw the pictures, you could tell that they were hurt really, really bad in the face; especially Sylvia," said Milad Garas, the high-school sophomore's great-uncle.

The heartless killer not only slit Sylvia's throat, but also sliced a huge gash in her chest and stabbed her in the wrist, where she had a tattoo of a Coptic cross.

Also found murdered were the wife, Amal Garas, and the parents' other daughter, Monica.

Fred Ayed, the deacon at St. George and St. Shenouda Church, where the deeply religious family attended services, said he's worried that the murders could have a ripple effect.

"I am concerned for the safety of our community," said Ayed, who knew Hossam for 30 years. "People are scared because one family was slain like cows," said Moheb Ghabour, publisher of a local newspaper for the Coptic community.

Osama Hassan, director of the Islamic Center of Jersey City, described the relationship between Copts and Muslims as cooperative if not friendly.

"I think there might be people that can get into physical fights, but not to the point of murder," Hassan said.

Both the deacon and uncle poured cold water on the theory that the family were the victims of a robbery gone wrong.

"This is not a robbery, Ayed said. "We found all of the jewelry in the house. They didn't take anything."

The FBI confirmed it has been called in to help with the case.

If proven that this man and his family were murdered as a result of on-line conversations, this should be both a warning and a call to arms for all of us who chat in forums and bulletin board systems ... a warning in that you should begin to take on-line threats serious, especially death threats, and a call to arms for people on-line to begin documenting and reporting threats while never backing down from those threats.
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doctortobe
Speak softly, and carry a 57 megaton stick!
Being killed as a result of your religious opinions and beliefs? Hell yes it's a hate crime. Find these butchers and send them to Federal death row.
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CV6 Enterprise
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Captain
I'm also thinking of that Theo Van Ghoah, who was killed by Muslim extreamist for making a documentry critcial of the way Muslims treat women.
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Swidden
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Adm. Gadfly-at-large; Provisional wRench-fly at large
If we are going to continue to have a category of crime called "Hate Crimes" (didn't we just used to call this "motive"?), then yes this likely qualifies if it is proven to be the case.
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Dwayne
Profanity deleted by Hoss
Swidden
Jan 16 2005, 03:09 PM
If we are going to continue to have a category of crime called "Hate Crimes" (didn't we just used to call this "motive"?), then yes this likely qualifies if it is proven to be the case.

I'd be happy to call it what it is ... islamofascist terrorism ... but since "hate crime" is now, thanks to ultra-leftists, part of the lexicon, I'll use it.
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fireh8er
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I'm Captain Kirk!
Yes! :realmad:
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somerled
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Admiral MacDonald RN
I don't know - the police will establish that one way or another.

Anything anyone here has to say on the matter can only be - at best - uninformed speculation.
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doctortobe
Speak softly, and carry a 57 megaton stick!
Of course. :rolleyes:
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24thcenstfan
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Something Wicked This Fae Comes
I voted Other: I really don't have enough information to make a judgement call on this issue. The investigation has barely had time to get underway.
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Admiralbill_gomec
UberAdmiral
I think it was.

I'm sure our antipodean poster would have called it a hate crime if the Coptic Christian attacked a Muslim family after making anti-Christian remarks...
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Hoss
Member Avatar
Don't make me use my bare hands on you.
somerled
Jan 16 2005, 09:25 PM
I don't know - the police will establish that one way or another.

Anything anyone here has to say on the matter can only be - at best - uninformed speculation.

We certainly shouldn't engage in any of that. :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Fesarius
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Admiral
Yes, motive. This may be a holdover from when we were attempting to re-write the English language.
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Admiralbill_gomec
UberAdmiral
Turns out there was a brawl at the funeral between the Coptics and Muslims who attended the service:

http://www.nypost.com/news/regionalnews/38891.htm

Titled: CHRISTIANS & MUSLIMS BRAWL

Quote:
 
An emotional holy war broke out yesterday on the streets of Jersey City, where Muslims and Christians clashed and lobbed insults at the funeral for a devout family of Egyptian immigrants who may have been slain for their religious beliefs.
While mourners inside the St. George & St. Shenouda Coptic Orthodox Church prayed for peace in the wake of a murder that escalated religious tensions at home and abroad, fights erupted amid the crowd that spilled outside the church, where angry Coptic Christians pointed accusing fingers at their Muslim counterparts.

Hossam Armanious, 37, his wife, Amal Garas, 37, and their two daughters, Sylvia, 15, and Monica, 8, were found dead in their Oakland Avenue home early Friday after relatives told police nobody had heard from them in days.

Investigators said each victim was bound, gagged and stabbed in the neck, and the early focus was on anti-Muslim remarks Armanious made in a popular religious chat room after a relative said Armanious was threatened online for expressing his Christian beliefs.

Officials said the religious persecution theory is still under investigation, but said some evidence points to robbery as a motive.

Members of the city's Coptic community — many of whom left Egypt like Armanious to escape religious threats — believe there is a connection between their faith and the murders.

That sentiment was expressed loudly by one parishioner inside who began yelling at Muslims, including a sheik, who attended the service.

 

"Muslim is the killer," he said over and over before he was dragged from the church by five police officers who hustled him into an unmarked police car and quickly drove away.

Tensions were high even before the first copper-colored casket arrived, when, during a procession to the church from Journal Square, family members asked mourners to put away anti-Muslim protest signs.

But emotions really boiled over in the moments after the wistful service when a skirmish broke out as the four black hearses adorned with the victims' pictures were being loaded.

Punches were thrown, people were shoved and police rushed in to break up the brawl that had moved up Bergen Avenue to a nearby parking garage.

For a while, cops kept the crowd separated with a metal garage gate until they could restore order.

"I think people here have fueled it," family friend Henry Simon, 35, said of the tension.

]"The sheik came at the wrong time. It's like spitting on their graves."

Those too sad to be angry had kind words for the deeply religious family, especially young Sylvia, who died a day before her Sweet 16 party.

Jersey City Councilman Steve Lipski recalled her unselfish work to help the destitute during Thanksgiving during a program sponsored by the church.

"She was there with her big, bright beautiful smile trying to help people," said Lipski, one of several elected officials including current Mayor Jerramiah Healy and former mayor Bret Schundler.

Sunday school teacher Miriam Fam read a poem the teenager wrote:

"No more tears for me to cry. No more days where I have to lie . . . No more sadness to darken my day. No more rain to fog my daydreams. No more pain in my life. No more fear of getting killed with life's knife."

Police said more than 1,500 people were on hand, far more than could fit in the church, which was standing room only yesterday.

A reward of $100,000 is being offered by Coptic leaders for information that leads to an arrest and conviction.

"It doesn't appear to be random," said Assistant Hudson County Prosecutor Guy Gregory. "It appears to be a specific act. Someone was able to gain access without forcing entry."

Investigators learned that a relative of the victims had helped prosecutors in their case against Lynne Stewart, the lawyer charged with passing messages to followers of her client, blind Sheik Omar Abdel Rahman, a convicted terrorist ringleader.

But sources close to the case said there is no connection between the relative and the murders.
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Dr. Noah
Sistertrek's Asian Correspondant
I am curious where the term "islamofacist" came from. Did someone here make it up, or is a Fox buzzword?
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Admiralbill_gomec
UberAdmiral
No one hear made it up, but it didn't come from Fox News either.
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