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| Situation in Iraq deteriorating? | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Dec 6 2004, 10:48 PM (283 Views) | |
| 24thcenstfan | Dec 6 2004, 10:48 PM Post #1 |
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Something Wicked This Fae Comes
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2 C.I.A. Reports Offer Warnings on Iraq's Path
1) Apparently the word "classified" has been redefined by some to mean, "let's hurry up and leak this to the press." 2) I wonder how much of this "revelation" about the current situation in Iraq has to do with the current shake up at the CIA? As a side note, I like what I am hearing so far about what Goss is doing at the CIA. That agency is long overdue for an overhaul IMO. 3) I wish I knew the real truth about what the heck is going on over in Iraq. There are just too many conflicting reports in my opinion. One minute we get good news, the next its all gloom and doom.
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| Dwayne | Dec 7 2004, 03:41 AM Post #2 |
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Profanity deleted by Hoss
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A1) This is a result of CIA employees and others in the greater INTEL community who have their own political agenda. It has to stop and that's why Porter Goss was brought in. A2) This has everything to do with what Goss is doing, because Goss must be seen as failing if the rogue elements in the INTEL community are to win the turf battle. But unfortunately the shake up must extend beyond the CIA to how Congress and the CIA work together, because I'd bet money that regardless of who Doug Jehl said leaked the document, it was leaked by a Congressional staffer who works for a congress person in the INTEL loop who also has a political reason to want to damage the Bush Administration specifically and republicans in general. A3) The fact of the matter is there is both good and bad occurring in Iraq, but to not recognize the good of what's happening in Iraq doesn't serve those wanting to make it better, because they do not receive recognition for a job well done. And to not recognize the bad blinds Iraqi's to the benchmarks which they will need to measure their efforts to reaching what is good. Those in the west that wish to focus only on the bad news do so for purely political reasons, and conversely, those that only wish to focus on the good news do so for the exact same reason. |
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| gvok | Dec 7 2004, 10:17 AM Post #3 |
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Unregistered
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I agree with this statement, Dwayne. |
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| 24thcenstfan | Dec 7 2004, 11:14 AM Post #4 |
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Something Wicked This Fae Comes
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Dwayne, You bring up some interesting points. I have little doubt that the document was leaked for someone’s political agenda. At the heart of the matter though is whether or not the document is factual. The article leads me to believe that there is some credibility to the document. Only time will tell I suppose.
I also agree with this statement of yours. IMO, one of the few remaining slave masters is political ideology. Most of us are influenced by political ideology. Unfortunately, more and more are becoming so entrenched in their politics that they are fast becoming incapable of functioning unless it is through the filter of that political ideology. |
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| Dwayne | Dec 7 2004, 09:07 PM Post #5 |
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Profanity deleted by Hoss
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Well of course the document is factual, at least in as much a CIA analysts' opinion can be called factual. The real question ... at least in my mind ... is this document a balanced assesment of the situation in Iraq? In that respect, I say no. This assesment could be balanced with other assesments, but only the negative assesments are leaked. Charges of law breaking would greet anyone if they were to attempt to refute this assesment specifically with data about the analyst that would explain the analyst's overall negative assesment or by releasing other secret CIA documents that painted a differring assesment. The fact is, every negative assesment coming out of Iraq could be balanced with examples of positive achievements in Iraq. You rarely get to read about all the Iraqi lives Americans have touched in positives ways, but let an American do something that seems negative or let a reports surface that casts a negative light on the situation, and you never hear the end of that. As for my comments ... thank you for the support. I just think that now more than every, democrats and republicans must stop and seriously contemplate just who they are; are we Americans with a shared vision or are ours visions for America going to devolve into sectarian division? We must realize that America has always been a few step away from becoming Balkanized; we could easily break into geographic/political battles. What's kept us together is a shared personal vision of America held by each and every one of us; we've always wanted to see our children do better than we did and we held no ill-will towards our neighbors. In my opinion, this shared personal vision is no longer shared by many Americans, especially the aspect of harboring ill-will towards our neighbors. Maybe no one wants to "love thy neighbor", because that's a philosophy unique to Judeo-Christian ethics and we've chosen to separate religion from daily life. Maybe we've just forgetton it or have become too jaded. |
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| Fesarius | Dec 8 2004, 08:54 AM Post #6 |
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Admiral
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^^^ Dwayne, Your posts are thought-provoking and engaging. That last paragraph--very interesting. [Fesarius cogitates the paragraph for a time.] |
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| somerled | Dec 8 2004, 09:15 AM Post #7 |
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Admiral MacDonald RN
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Or perhaps they never really did and have come to realise that dark forces within their own halls of power have taken hold and mislead , misinformed and caused then to act in a similar as the regimes that millions of American bled to expunge for ever from the world. There was a time when the USA was held in high regard just about everywhere - those days have passed forever. Perhaps the propoganda and paranoia made them more fearful than they should be, causing the USA to become what the American people most despise themselves. Just a thought. |
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| Wichita | Dec 8 2004, 09:42 AM Post #8 |
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The Adminstrator wRench
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Personal Response Or perhaps some just prefer to see disaster and refuse to look for success. Good news from Iraq End of Personal Response |
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| Fesarius | Dec 8 2004, 10:24 AM Post #9 |
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Admiral
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Bingo! And Amen to that.
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| gvok | Dec 8 2004, 10:29 AM Post #10 |
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Unregistered
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This may be true for some people who thought the decision to invade Iraq was wrong but it is not true for all (namely myself). |
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| Fesarius | Dec 8 2004, 10:47 AM Post #11 |
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Admiral
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BTW, my 'Bingo' post was not directed at Somerled. But it was directed at the naysayers and the 'doom-and-gloomers' that exist today.
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| Dwayne | Dec 8 2004, 07:33 PM Post #12 |
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Profanity deleted by Hoss
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Well, thank you. I didn't really consider it "thought-provoking and engaging" when I first wrote it. I thought they were more stream of consciousness than anything else.
Here's a thought, perhaps you're just an Anti-American numbskull who wouldn't know the nature of fascism and totalitarianism even if it were to storm into your house and lop off your head. People who seek freedom from around the world still hold America in high regard and choose the United States as their destination over all others. As well, it is perhaps you that is the victim of propaganda and paranoia, because you wish to believe the people you should despise the most. |
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| 24thcenstfan | Dec 8 2004, 08:46 PM Post #13 |
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Something Wicked This Fae Comes
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I think this is an exaggeration. The US has definitely suffered a black eye over the last 4 years because of our actions in regards to Iraq. Also, the international community has in my opinion had a difficult time getting used to (or accepting) President Bush’s style of governing. I don’t think the world was prepared for a US President that was in so many ways different from Clinton. This has caused a lot of resentment. The transition wasn’t easy for many Americans either (it certainly wasn’t for me). However, as already mentioned, the US is still one of the most coveted nations in the world for people wanting to immigrate. In addition, politics and public sentiment is cyclical and always changing (it is never forever). In five, ten, twenty years from now, the international community will have an entirely different view of the US. It may be worse, it may be better...one never knows. P.S. (I added the bold). |
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| Dwayne | Dec 8 2004, 10:06 PM Post #14 |
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Profanity deleted by Hoss
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Four years? America only went into Iraq in April of 2003. That's less than 2 years ago. The extreme anti-Americanism we see today started the very day America was attacked those fateful days over 3 years ago. People just let the politics of the moment blind themselves to this. |
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| Wichita | Dec 8 2004, 10:08 PM Post #15 |
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The Adminstrator wRench
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Personal Response Based on your response, I take it that you didn't read my post before commenting. End of Personal Response |
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There are just too many conflicting reports in my opinion. One minute we get good news, the next its all gloom and doom.

3:18 AM Jul 11