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| Self Defense | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Dec 5 2004, 10:27 PM (796 Views) | |
| Dwayne | Dec 7 2004, 10:08 PM Post #46 |
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Profanity deleted by Hoss
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Answer my question and leave the double talk for someone else ... Just what reason is given in the Federalist Papers for the 2nd Amend? |
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| Dwayne | Dec 7 2004, 10:09 PM Post #47 |
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Profanity deleted by Hoss
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Jesus ... that's a non sequitur. Taking revenge for fraud is not the same as defending oneself.
Self defense is a human right. |
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| gvok | Dec 7 2004, 10:16 PM Post #48 |
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Unregistered
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What does that mean?
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| Dwayne | Dec 7 2004, 10:19 PM Post #49 |
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Profanity deleted by Hoss
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Answer my question and leave the double talk for someone else ... Just what reason is given in the Federalist Papers for the 2nd Amend? |
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| gvok | Dec 7 2004, 10:25 PM Post #50 |
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Unregistered
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Oh, I wasn't sure whether "even the double talk" was some kind of local dialect. Please tell me what you feel I said was double talk and I will then answer your question. |
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| Dwayne | Dec 7 2004, 10:40 PM Post #51 |
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Profanity deleted by Hoss
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Everything you said that didn't answer my question. |
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| ds9074 | Dec 8 2004, 12:21 AM Post #52 |
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Admiral
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It perfectly straightforward. You can defend yourself from an assault in your home but the fact that it happens in your house, and the person is a trespasser, doesnt give you the right to take any extra measures. You can defend against the assault as you could in the street, you cannot take revenge for the burglary/trespass. They are two distinct incidents. |
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| Dwayne | Dec 8 2004, 07:48 AM Post #53 |
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Profanity deleted by Hoss
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Extra measures??? Define that. In many communities in the United States law abiding citizens, by law, can commit a citizens arrest if they observe a person committing a crime, therefore if a thief violates the law by breaking and entering, and then the home owner is able to defend himself against the criminal and gain the upper hand, that citizen has every right under citizen arrest laws to detain that criminal until police arrive. Well, that would certianly be extra measures. As well, why do you keep harping on acts of revenge and such, the discussion was never, 'do you have the right to defend yourself then take revenge', but simply do you have the right to defend yourself. I will say this though, ask any American police man, and privately and off the record, many will tell you that if you encounter a criminal in your house who intends you harm, kill that person, because if you simply detain that person, regardless whether you physically harm the person, they will likely sue you in civil courts for pain and suffering. |
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| ds9074 | Dec 8 2004, 08:09 AM Post #54 |
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Admiral
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By extra measures I mean that you cannot use more force than you would to defend yourself against a similar attack in the street. What I am trying to say about 'revenge' or taking the law into your hands is this. You can defend yourself against attack in your home or on the street. Thats self defence. If however you shoot a trespasser - not because they are a threat to you but simply because they are on your property - that is not right. |
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| Hoss | Dec 8 2004, 08:25 AM Post #55 |
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Don't make me use my bare hands on you.
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The way I see things, your right to private property is second only to your right to life and freedom of expression. If you invade and threaten my private property or intend to harm the life of my family, your right to life just dropped down the priority list a couple of notches. |
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| ds9074 | Dec 8 2004, 08:42 AM Post #56 |
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Admiral
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In my view the right to life superseeds all other rights, including property rights. Therefore the trespassers right to life overrides your property rights. The only justification you have for killing them is if they were going to kill you. |
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| Hoss | Dec 8 2004, 08:47 AM Post #57 |
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Don't make me use my bare hands on you.
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So, we disagree. May I suggest that if you find your self in the USA (particularly somewhere in the middle), that you not illegaly enter somebody's house.
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| gvok | Dec 8 2004, 09:45 AM Post #58 |
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Unregistered
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I don't really know what you are talking about and I don't feel the need to cooperate with you if you're going to be pissy with me. |
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| Fesarius | Dec 8 2004, 10:25 AM Post #59 |
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Admiral
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DS, Question: Why do you believe you (we) have the right to life? Whom or what gives you this right? |
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| ds9074 | Dec 8 2004, 12:54 PM Post #60 |
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Admiral
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The right to life is the most fundemental and basic of human rights, notitionally granted to me by my Government, but above and beyond that it is granted as a fact of my existance. It is a God given right. The Almighty gave me life and no man has the right to take that life away - unless I threaten to do so to them. Whereas my right to property comes from the fact that I purchased the property and I legally own it. Yet it is not a God given fundemental right for me to own that property. It could be taken away from me legally for a number of justifiable reasons. Property rights are very much secondary to the right to life. |
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