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| Self Defense | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Dec 5 2004, 10:27 PM (798 Views) | |
| gvok | Dec 6 2004, 12:50 PM Post #16 |
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Unregistered
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It's not "superior force" that has been found to be beyond the law by American jurisprudence, it is unreasonably excessive force. That's up for a jury to decide and it varies from jurisdiction to jurisdiction. |
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| Hoss | Dec 6 2004, 12:52 PM Post #17 |
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Don't make me use my bare hands on you.
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If I had found that someone had illegally entered my house, where my children live. I'd probably make sure that they went down and didn't get up and worry about legal crap later. |
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| gvok | Dec 6 2004, 12:58 PM Post #18 |
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Unregistered
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The classic law school case on this subject is the spring gun case. (This is from memory so don't fight me on the details). Essentially, a couple owned a house that they did not live in. The house kept getting broken into so the guy set up a shot gun that would fire at chest level when the door was opened. Someone tried to break in and was shot in the chest. This was found to be unreasonable by the jury and the result was affirmed on appeal. |
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| Hoss | Dec 6 2004, 01:01 PM Post #19 |
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Don't make me use my bare hands on you.
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Now, that is akin to setting a 'person trap' and is not the same thing as killing someone who is attacking you or invading your house. A 'person trap' is not something that I would approve of. |
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| gvok | Dec 6 2004, 01:03 PM Post #20 |
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Unregistered
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Right. I think most juries would not convict a person protecting his family. Nor do I think most DAs would prosecute someone under similar circumstances. |
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| Admiralbill_gomec | Dec 6 2004, 01:48 PM Post #21 |
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UberAdmiral
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It isn't like I have a howitzer aimed at the front door (the recoil would probably knock it across the terrazzo tile into my living room). Property protection laws in Texas are not especially stringent. Usually something like shooting a burglar goes before a grand jury. |
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| Dr. Noah | Dec 6 2004, 01:51 PM Post #22 |
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Sistertrek's Asian Correspondant
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I don't know what it's like in California, but everywhere else I lived, if someone is on your property without your permission, you are well within your rights to shoot them. Now, most people don't do that, but it is the law. |
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| gvok | Dec 6 2004, 02:01 PM Post #23 |
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Unregistered
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Even if they accidentally wander on your property? That doesn't seem right to me. |
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| Dr. Noah | Dec 6 2004, 02:03 PM Post #24 |
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Sistertrek's Asian Correspondant
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Most of the time, the person with the gun will make it known that they are in violation of their property, usually at gunpoint and ask what their business is. Like I said, it's rare if someone is actually shot, but it is your right to do so. |
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| Hoss | Dec 6 2004, 02:06 PM Post #25 |
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Don't make me use my bare hands on you.
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I think that A.) there are a variety of requirements for posting warning signs about trespassing and putting up fences. B.) being in your yard is quite a bit different than being in your fenced in signed yard and this is quite a bit different than being in your actual house. You can't just shoot anyone that happens into your front yard. I don't believe that is true anywhere in this country and would be very interested to know if it were. |
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| Dr. Noah | Dec 6 2004, 02:10 PM Post #26 |
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Sistertrek's Asian Correspondant
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http://statutes.unicam.state.ne.us/Corpus/...8/R2814009.html 28-1409 Use of force in self-protection. (1) Subject to the provisions of this section and of section 28-1414, the use of force upon or toward another person is justifiable when the actor believes that such force is immediately necessary for the purpose of protecting himself against the use of unlawful force by such other person on the present occasion. (2) The use of such force is not justifiable under this section to resist an arrest which the actor knows is being made by a peace officer, although the arrest is unlawful. (3) The use of such force is not justifiable under this section to resist force used by the occupier or possessor of property or by another person on his behalf, where the actor knows that the person using the force is doing so under a claim of right to protect the property, except that this limitation shall not apply if: (a) The actor is a public officer acting in the performance of his duties or a person lawfully assisting him therein or a person making or assisting in a lawful arrest; (b) The actor has been unlawfully dispossessed of the property and is making a reentry or recapture justified by section 28-1411; or © The actor believes that such force is necessary to protect himself against death or serious bodily harm. (4) The use of deadly force shall not be justifiable under this section unless the actor believes that such force is necessary to protect himself against death, serious bodily harm, kidnapping or sexual intercourse compelled by force or threat, nor is it justifiable if: (a) The actor, with the purpose of causing death or serious bodily harm, provoked the use of force against himself in the same encounter; or (b) The actor knows that he can avoid the necessity of using such force with complete safety by retreating or by surrendering possession of a thing to a person asserting a claim of right thereto or by complying with a demand that he abstain from any action which he has no duty to take, except that: (i) The actor shall not be obliged to retreat from his dwelling or place of work, unless he was the initial aggressor or is assailed in his place of work by another person whose place of work the actor knows it to be; and (ii) A public officer justified in using force in the performance of his duties or a person justified in using force in his assistance or a person justified in using force in making an arrest or preventing an escape shall not be obliged to desist from efforts to perform such duty, effect such arrest or prevent such escape because of resistance or threatened resistance by or on behalf of the person against whom such action is directed. (5) Except as required by subsections (3) and (4) of this section, a person employing protective force may estimate the necessity thereof under the circumstances as he believes them to be when the force is used, without retreating, surrendering possession, doing any other act which he has no legal duty to do, or abstaining from any lawful action. (6) The justification afforded by this section extends to the use of confinement as protective force only if the actor takes all reasonable measures to terminate the confinement as soon as he knows that he safely can do so, unless the person confined has been arrested on a charge of crime. |
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| Fesarius | Dec 6 2004, 06:57 PM Post #27 |
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Admiral
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I would use a gun in order to defend my family. If that means that I would have to serve a life-sentence in prison, then so be it. I don't condone killing of any kind, so I would be quite careful to fire at non-vital parts of an intruder. An unmitigated right is a strong phrase. But maybe that is what is needed to ward off intruders, or better yet, to act as a deterrant. |
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| Dwayne | Dec 6 2004, 07:17 PM Post #28 |
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Profanity deleted by Hoss
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Oh really, then just what is this...
Just what reason is given in the Federalist Papers for the 2nd Amend? |
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| Hoss | Dec 6 2004, 07:36 PM Post #29 |
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Don't make me use my bare hands on you.
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If the intruder had a deadly weapon (i.e., gun) and could still be partially effective while injured, I would shoot to kill (chest shot). |
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| doctortobe | Dec 6 2004, 07:49 PM Post #30 |
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Speak softly, and carry a 57 megaton stick!
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Here's a question. What if the burgler is physically more powerful then the home owner? How do you define what a justified level of force really is? If a 20 year old body builder breaks into the home of an 80 year old woman, would you really expect her to take him on hand to hand? Heck, I would bet that most of the criminals out there would be physically tough enough to make hand to hand combat a stupid thing to be legally bound to go into. I mean, criminals aren't known for being weakling creampuffs that are easily beaten up. |
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