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How do some leftist come to conclude Bush=Hitler?
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Topic Started: Dec 2 2004, 08:27 PM (570 Views)
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ImpulseEngine
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Dec 3 2004, 12:53 AM
Post #16
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Admiral
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- Dwayne
- Dec 3 2004, 12:33 AM
- ImpulseEngine
- Dec 3 2004, 12:22 AM
I don't think there's a chance of anything. I prefer facts.
[sarcasm]Sure you do.[/sarcasm]
:rolleyes:
Believe what you want. There's always a chance you could be right.
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somerled
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Dec 3 2004, 01:09 AM
Post #17
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Admiral MacDonald RN
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- Dwayne
- Dec 3 2004, 12:31 AM
- somerled
- Dec 3 2004, 12:09 AM
- Dwayne
- Dec 2 2004, 08:27 PM
Maybe they have no idea who and what Hitler was, as this poll in the UK shows. - Quote:
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Nearly half of Britons in a poll said they had never heard of Auschwitz, the Nazi death camp in southern Poland that became a symbol of the Holocaust and the attempted genocide of the Jews.
The results of the survey conducted by the BBC were released on Thursday as Britain's public broadcaster announced it will show a new series next January to mark the 60th anniversary of the concentration camp's liberation.
I found this poll shocking in that 45% of the respondants had never heard of Auschwitz. As well, I'd love to see a similar poll of Americans for the sake of conparison. That said, I firmly believe, based on this and other ancedotal evidence that Europeans really are not as knowledgeable as the media and they make themselves out to be.
Hard to believe - maybe the sample was a poor one or the base of the sample skewed. Maybe these were people who never watch or read the news, never watch historical documentaries and never got past year 8 or 9 in school. Maybe most the respondents were people who spend all their leisure time watching siccoms and reality TV shows. As to a connection between "leftism' and comparing Bush with Hitler and the results of this pole - NOW THAT"S A STRETCH !!! I might ask also why would Brits have the events of Auschwitz-Birkenau, Belzec, Chelmno, Majdanek, Sobibor , and others like them ingrained into their psychy , these all happened 60 years ago to another , mostly dead generation , in another country and few Brits were actually touched by the effects of these camps and horrors therein, and very few Brits had relatives who where interred there or died there.
How convenient; you don't like a poll results so spin it into a "base of the sample skewed." I hear polls show a lot of Europeans dislike America ... I'd bet the base of the sample is skewed. That's it! And my observation about this poll and leftists is only a stretch for you, because to seriously consider the point would leave you in the uncomfortable position of admitting a great deal of leftist talking points is merely claptrap.
What ever you think.
Maybe you should grow up a bit before trying to pick fights with us big boys.
Personally - I REALLY don't care what you think.
If you can't accept alternative conclusions to what are really only your opinions and have no basis in fact then that's your problem and no one else's.
Now - since you claim there is indeed a direct causal link between the results of the poll, and leftist views of Bush , then maybe you better show us this link and relevent citations that support this claim.
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Dwayne
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Dec 3 2004, 01:35 AM
Post #18
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- somerled
- Dec 3 2004, 01:09 AM
What ever you think.
Maybe you should grow up a bit before trying to pick fights with us big boys.
Personally - I REALLY don't care what you think.
You actions belie your words ... if you truly did not care, you would not bother replying, but reply you must.
- somerled
- Dec 3 2004, 01:09 AM
If you can't accept alternative conclusions to what are really only your opinions and have no basis in fact then that's your problem and no one else's.
It is you that has problems accepting alternate conclusions. Your musing about Iraq is proof of that.
- somerled
- Dec 3 2004, 01:09 AM
Now - since you claim there is indeed a direct causal link between the results of the poll, and leftist views of Bush , then maybe you better show us this link and relevent citations that support this claim.
I claimed no such thing. All I did was suggest, based in the poll I linked to, that leftists who equate Mr. Bush with Hitler are ignorant of history. Learn to read why don't you.
This is just like the helicopter speeds comments I made that you tried to rebute and where you couldn't differentiate between, based on acronyms, kilometers and nautical miles.
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somerled
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Dec 3 2004, 01:40 AM
Post #19
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Admiral MacDonald RN
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- Dwayne
- Dec 3 2004, 01:35 AM
- somerled
- Dec 3 2004, 01:09 AM
What ever you think.
Maybe you should grow up a bit before trying to pick fights with us big boys.
Personally - I REALLY don't care what you think.
You actions belie your words ... if you truly did not care, you would not bother replying, but reply you must. - somerled
- Dec 3 2004, 01:09 AM
If you can't accept alternative conclusions to what are really only your opinions and have no basis in fact then that's your problem and no one else's.
It is you that has problems accepting alternate conclusions. Your musing about Iraq is proof of that. - somerled
- Dec 3 2004, 01:09 AM
Now - since you claim there is indeed a direct causal link between the results of the poll, and leftist views of Bush , then maybe you better show us this link and relevent citations that support this claim.
I claimed no such thing. All I did was suggest, based in the poll I linked to, that leftists who equate Mr. Bush with Hitler are ignorant of history. Learn to read why don't you. This is just like the helicopter speeds comments I made that you tried to rebute and where you couldn't tell differentiate between, based on acronyms, kilometers and nautical miles.
Why so defensive of what is just an unsubstantiated personal opinion then ?
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Dwayne
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Dec 3 2004, 07:41 AM
Post #20
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- somerled
- Dec 3 2004, 01:40 AM
Why so defensive of what is just an unsubstantiated personal opinion then ?
Surely you jest. You epitomize the defensive response.
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Hard to believe
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Maybe these were people who never watch or read the news
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Maybe you should grow up a bit
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I REALLY don't care what you think
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24thcenstfan
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Dec 3 2004, 09:56 AM
Post #21
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Something Wicked This Fae Comes
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- Dwayne
- Dec 2 2004, 09:55 PM
- 24thcenstfan
- Dec 2 2004, 08:35 PM
Dwayne,
I am curious, how did you get from your title question to "maybe they…," from a poll that does not indicate political affiliation? For all we know, those who were polled were rightist.
The premise of my question is based on the idea that the political alignment of the government of Great Britain is reflective of the political alignment of the population of the same. While a small number of the people polled may have been on the right, the chances are the plurality of those polled are similar to those that voted for everything that makes British society left of center.
I’ll have to disagree with the validity of your premise then. While the political alignment of the government may be reflective of the political alignment of some of the population, it is not conclusive proof that can be used to draw your particular conclusion. The article states:
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The BBC said the research was based on a nationally representative postal survey of 4,000 adults 16 and older.
A nationally representative survey of adults 16 and older? How many of those polled actually voted? Can 16 year olds even vote in the UK? If they can vote, can we guarantee that the Holocaust or more specifically Auschwitz was even part of the history lesson? What areas of Briton ended up being polled?
Furthermore, unless the poll asked specifically about political affiliation, then all of those questions are moot.
The only thing that you can conclusively state at this point is, “some people conclude Bush=Hitler.” If you can find some example of someone in the UK holding up a sign equating Bush with Hitler (which I have personally seen), then you can say, “at least one Briton concludes Bush=Hitler.”
You cannot conclude from the poll you posted that “some leftist come to conclude Bush=Hitler” because “maybe they have no idea who and what Hitler was.” You have absolutely no conclucive proof that those polled were leftist, rightist, voters, non-voters, etc.
In addition, how are you defining “leftist?” Blair does not conclude that Bush=Hilter (he has never stated anything to the effect that I am aware of), so I don’t think he or his government are supporters of this radical left opinion. It stands to reason that some of those who voted for Blair (the plurality as you call it) support Blair’s views. Some may not. After all, I voted for Bush but I am not a Conservative (I don’t think Bush=Hitler either or I wouldn’t have voted for him regardless of any other reasoning).
The point is, you cannot even begin to draw conclusions that are based on fact unless the poll indicates political affiliation. One more question that would have been helpful to ask those that were polled, “Do you equate Bush to Hitler?” It wasn’t asked. A person can be a flaming leftist and still not equate Bush to Hitler.
You have too many unknown variables Dwayne.
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Dwayne
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Dec 3 2004, 07:44 PM
Post #22
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- 24thcenstfan
- Dec 3 2004, 09:56 AM
- Dwayne
- Dec 2 2004, 09:55 PM
- 24thcenstfan
- Dec 2 2004, 08:35 PM
Dwayne,
I am curious, how did you get from your title question to "maybe they…," from a poll that does not indicate political affiliation? For all we know, those who were polled were rightist.
The premise of my question is based on the idea that the political alignment of the government of Great Britain is reflective of the political alignment of the population of the same. While a small number of the people polled may have been on the right, the chances are the plurality of those polled are similar to those that voted for everything that makes British society left of center.
I’ll have to disagree with the validity of your premise then. While the political alignment of the government may be reflective of the political alignment of some of the population, it is not conclusive proof that can be used to draw your particular conclusion. The article states: - Quote:
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The BBC said the research was based on a nationally representative postal survey of 4,000 adults 16 and older.
A nationally representative survey of adults 16 and older? How many of those polled actually voted? Can 16 year olds even vote in the UK? If they can vote, can we guarantee that the Holocaust or more specifically Auschwitz was even part of the history lesson? What areas of Briton ended up being polled? Furthermore, unless the poll asked specifically about political affiliation, then all of those questions are moot. The only thing that you can conclusively state at this point is, “some people conclude Bush=Hitler.” If you can find some example of someone in the UK holding up a sign equating Bush with Hitler (which I have personally seen), then you can say, “at least one Briton concludes Bush=Hitler.” You cannot conclude from the poll you posted that “some leftist come to conclude Bush=Hitler” because “maybe they have no idea who and what Hitler was.” You have absolutely no conclucive proof that those polled were leftist, rightist, voters, non-voters, etc. In addition, how are you defining “leftist?” Blair does not conclude that Bush=Hilter (he has never stated anything to the effect that I am aware of), so I don’t think he or his government are supporters of this radical left opinion. It stands to reason that some of those who voted for Blair (the plurality as you call it) support Blair’s views. Some may not. After all, I voted for Bush but I am not a Conservative (I don’t think Bush=Hitler either or I wouldn’t have voted for him regardless of any other reasoning). The point is, you cannot even begin to draw conclusions that are based on fact unless the poll indicates political affiliation. One more question that would have been helpful to ask those that were polled, “Do you equate Bush to Hitler?” It wasn’t asked. A person can be a flaming leftist and still not equate Bush to Hitler. You have too many unknown variables Dwayne.
I never conclusively state anything, so try again.
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24thcenstfan
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Dec 3 2004, 08:39 PM
Post #23
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Something Wicked This Fae Comes
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Its okay to admit that you were wrong Dwayne, no one will think less of you for it.
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Ngagh
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Dec 3 2004, 09:24 PM
Post #24
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Huh?
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- Dwayne
- Dec 3 2004, 07:44 PM
I never conclusively state anything, so try again.
Yet you believe the poll you posted shows evidence of "some" leftists conclude that Bush equated to Hitler. I could take the same poll in another country that is politically right, and against the war, where I have seen people hold poster hold up signs equating Bush to Hitler. Would you believe that some rightists then equate Bush to Hitler?
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somerled
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Dec 3 2004, 10:01 PM
Post #25
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Admiral MacDonald RN
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- Dwayne
- Dec 3 2004, 07:44 PM
- 24thcenstfan
- Dec 3 2004, 09:56 AM
- Dwayne
- Dec 2 2004, 09:55 PM
- 24thcenstfan
- Dec 2 2004, 08:35 PM
Dwayne,
I am curious, how did you get from your title question to "maybe they…," from a poll that does not indicate political affiliation? For all we know, those who were polled were rightist.
The premise of my question is based on the idea that the political alignment of the government of Great Britain is reflective of the political alignment of the population of the same. While a small number of the people polled may have been on the right, the chances are the plurality of those polled are similar to those that voted for everything that makes British society left of center.
I’ll have to disagree with the validity of your premise then. While the political alignment of the government may be reflective of the political alignment of some of the population, it is not conclusive proof that can be used to draw your particular conclusion. The article states: - Quote:
-
The BBC said the research was based on a nationally representative postal survey of 4,000 adults 16 and older.
A nationally representative survey of adults 16 and older? How many of those polled actually voted? Can 16 year olds even vote in the UK? If they can vote, can we guarantee that the Holocaust or more specifically Auschwitz was even part of the history lesson? What areas of Briton ended up being polled? Furthermore, unless the poll asked specifically about political affiliation, then all of those questions are moot. The only thing that you can conclusively state at this point is, “some people conclude Bush=Hitler.” If you can find some example of someone in the UK holding up a sign equating Bush with Hitler (which I have personally seen), then you can say, “at least one Briton concludes Bush=Hitler.” You cannot conclude from the poll you posted that “some leftist come to conclude Bush=Hitler” because “maybe they have no idea who and what Hitler was.” You have absolutely no conclucive proof that those polled were leftist, rightist, voters, non-voters, etc. In addition, how are you defining “leftist?” Blair does not conclude that Bush=Hilter (he has never stated anything to the effect that I am aware of), so I don’t think he or his government are supporters of this radical left opinion. It stands to reason that some of those who voted for Blair (the plurality as you call it) support Blair’s views. Some may not. After all, I voted for Bush but I am not a Conservative (I don’t think Bush=Hitler either or I wouldn’t have voted for him regardless of any other reasoning). The point is, you cannot even begin to draw conclusions that are based on fact unless the poll indicates political affiliation. One more question that would have been helpful to ask those that were polled, “Do you equate Bush to Hitler?” It wasn’t asked. A person can be a flaming leftist and still not equate Bush to Hitler. You have too many unknown variables Dwayne.
I never conclusively state anything, so try again.
Just more of your usual wild unsubstantiated generalisations with political motivations then.
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Dwayne
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Dec 4 2004, 12:40 AM
Post #26
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- Ngagh
- Dec 3 2004, 09:24 PM
- Dwayne
- Dec 3 2004, 07:44 PM
I never conclusively state anything, so try again.
Yet you believe the poll you posted shows evidence of "some" leftists conclude that Bush equated to Hitler. I could take the same poll in another country that is politically right, and against the war, where I have seen people hold poster hold up signs equating Bush to Hitler. Would you believe that some rightists then equate Bush to Hitler?
No, I know some leftists conclude that Bush=Hitler. As for the poll, I think the poll shows that a plurality of the population of Britain is clueless of the nature of Hitler vis-a-vis what the name Auschwitz means.
As well, I think this poll is a poll of the general population of Britain, and not some sub category of the population. This is pretty well established in the opening paragraph.
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Nearly half of Britons in a poll said they had never heard of Auschwitz, the Nazi death camp in southern Poland that became a symbol of the Holocaust and the attempted genocide of the Jews.
This paragraph is not talking about nearly half of leftwing Britons or rightwing Britons, but just Britons in general.
Now, as for the political leanings of the general population of Britain, I think that's self-evident ... it leans left (some would say far left) of center. Do not sit here and honestly attempt to argue to the contrary.
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Dwayne
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Dec 4 2004, 12:41 AM
Post #27
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- 24thcenstfan
- Dec 3 2004, 08:39 PM
Its okay to admit that you were wrong Dwayne, no one will think less of you for it.
Wrong about what?
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Dwayne
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Dec 4 2004, 12:42 AM
Post #28
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- somerled
- Dec 3 2004, 10:01 PM
Just more of your usual wild unsubstantiated generalisations with political motivations then.
Hypocrite
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somerled
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Dec 4 2004, 01:50 AM
Post #29
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Admiral MacDonald RN
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- Dwayne
- Dec 4 2004, 12:40 AM
- Ngagh
- Dec 3 2004, 09:24 PM
- Dwayne
- Dec 3 2004, 07:44 PM
I never conclusively state anything, so try again.
Yet you believe the poll you posted shows evidence of "some" leftists conclude that Bush equated to Hitler. I could take the same poll in another country that is politically right, and against the war, where I have seen people hold poster hold up signs equating Bush to Hitler. Would you believe that some rightists then equate Bush to Hitler?
No, I know some leftists conclude that Bush=Hitler. As for the poll, I think the poll shows that a plurality of the population of Britain is clueless of the nature of Hitler vis-a-vis what the name Auschwitz means. As well, I think this poll is a poll of the general population of Britain, and not some sub category of the population. This is pretty well established in the opening paragraph. - Quote:
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Nearly half of Britons in a poll said they had never heard of Auschwitz, the Nazi death camp in southern Poland that became a symbol of the Holocaust and the attempted genocide of the Jews.
This paragraph is not talking about nearly half of leftwing Britons or rightwing Britons, but just Britons in general. Now, as for the political leanings of the general population of Britain, I think that's self-evident ... it leans left (some would say far left) of center. Do not sit here and honestly attempt to argue to the contrary.
Before DS or some other Brit shoots you down in flames for saying
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Now, as for the political leanings of the general population of Britain, I think that's self-evident ... it leans left (some would say far left) of center. Do not sit here and honestly attempt to argue to the contrary.
Where is your evidence to support this particular and wildly generalised allegation ?
Or is that just another of your personal opinions that you want to present as a fact ?
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Dwayne
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Dec 4 2004, 02:02 AM
Post #30
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- somerled
- Dec 4 2004, 01:50 AM
Before DS or some other Brit shoots you down in flames for saying - Quote:
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Now, as for the political leanings of the general population of Britain, I think that's self-evident ... it leans left (some would say far left) of center. Do not sit here and honestly attempt to argue to the contrary.
Where is your evidence to support this particular and wildly generalised allegation ? Or is that just another of your personal opinions that you want to present as a fact ?
Your deductive skills are quite weak, as is...never mind.
Ah yes, Great Britain is a bastion of conservative thought.
That's why the ruling party is Labor.
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