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| Abstinence Programs Faulted | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Dec 2 2004, 02:07 PM (530 Views) | |
| Dandandat | Dec 2 2004, 08:29 PM Post #16 |
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Time to put something here
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Its not about abstinence its about the program its self. If my choice is to send my kids to a program that will lie/exaggerate to them, that is my choice is it not, even if you disagree with it? Just as it is your choice to get an abortion if you want, even if I disagree with it. If the government pays for one (abortion) why cant they pay for the other (a program that lies to the kids in it)? No one is forced to go through this program, it is their choice to do so. There is no difference between this and abortion, except that this man (and you I assume) disagree with it. By saying that it should not exist you are forcing that (his/ and I assume yours) opinion on the people who do think it should exist. Would you except me saying – sure you have a choice on abortion, just do it at home? No you would not, so these people should also get that curtsy. Its about choice, you demand it, but you must also let others have theirs. If you expect the government to pay for your choice, you must also grant that same benefit to others. It seems to me – people in this country (form all corners) (I cant speek for your country) what their cake but eat it too. |
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| Minuet | Dec 3 2004, 12:00 PM Post #17 |
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Fleet Admiral Assistant wRench, Chief Supper Officer
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But what if you don't know the program is lying and you send your child anyways. I think honesty needs to be a key component of any government funded program no matter what the subject. I would be equally upset about a course that taught birth control - but lied about the success rate of various methods, or that tried to hid the reality of STD's. If the true goal is the health and protection of our children then honesty is the only way to go. |
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| Wichita | Dec 3 2004, 12:40 PM Post #18 |
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The Adminstrator wRench
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Source Personal Response Minuet, wouldn't you agree that people should also be informed if abortions clinics standards don't meet the same standards as other outpatient facilities? Is it the right of "experts" to determine if the standards are enough or should the patients be made aware that the standards are not the same as other outpatient clinics and be allowed to make an informed choice? One of the reasons this bill is being pushed now is that one clinic in Maryland was found to be doing abortions without a doctor being present on occasion. When investigated, it was discovered that the owner operated had had a clinic in another state closed down by that state. Maryland was the only state to allow her reopen before this violation was discovered. End of Personal Response |
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| Hoss | Dec 3 2004, 12:53 PM Post #19 |
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Don't make me use my bare hands on you.
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^^^^How dare they kill someone without a doctor present to perform the, ahem, 'medical' procedure? |
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| Fesarius | Dec 3 2004, 01:40 PM Post #20 |
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Admiral
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Shocking! And Hippocrates would agree!
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| Minuet | Dec 3 2004, 02:50 PM Post #21 |
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Fleet Admiral Assistant wRench, Chief Supper Officer
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Absolutely they should be held to the same standards. As I said
I am rather suprised to hear this is a problem. Canada is quite different from the US. There is no way in Canada that our socialized medical system would pay for something that was not performed to standard by the proper medical professionals. But then remember - I agree that abstinance should be taught. I merely want to see that all the information given to our children is accurate. That includes correct information on contraceptives, including failure rates and information regarding STD's. |
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| Dr. Noah | Dec 3 2004, 02:51 PM Post #22 |
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Sistertrek's Asian Correspondant
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Abstenence Program Equivalent: "Sex is bad. You shouldn't have sex. Because it's bad. mmmmmmmmkay?" :lol: |
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| Wichita | Dec 3 2004, 03:10 PM Post #23 |
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The Adminstrator wRench
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Personal Response Having worked with a community task force (small, small town), I would say I've never seen such a program, but then you may have had a different experience. Our programs focused on how delaying pregnancy until a time when you have the physically and emotional ability to raise a child increased your chances for success in life. Abstinence was the most reliable method by which you could delay pregnancy - others had varying degrees of success. The overall problem we faced was not issues of "morality" but issue of ignorance and most of that came from the kids themselves. People are still saying you can't get pregant your first time, for example. Once I attended a program where the presenter pointed out that The Pill could be ineffective if you were on a course of antibiotics (true). The kids were shocked - as were several adult female chaperones :scared:. End of Personal Response |
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| Minuet | Dec 3 2004, 03:18 PM Post #24 |
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Fleet Admiral Assistant wRench, Chief Supper Officer
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^^^ And that is exactly what I am talking about. Ignorance of the facts is the biggest problem our children face. I don't have personal experience - yet - of the programs in our schools. My older daughter is just reaching the age where the school will begin to teach sex education. I personally have already provided basic facts and I hope I have set up a situation where my daughter is comfortable discussing these issues with me and letting me know what is taught in the school. I was not basing my opinion on any specific experience - just stating what my "ideal" program would include. |
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| Wichita | Dec 3 2004, 03:51 PM Post #25 |
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The Adminstrator wRench
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Personal Response
The problem with school based programs - NO MATTER WHAT VERSION THEY TEACH - is that the kids will often STILL believe their friends first. Schools don't have the one on one relationships that parents CAN have. To me the best protection for a kid is being able to go to a parent and say "This is what I heard ... " and have that parent listen and give good advice. It beats every other option or program. Now, I do know there are parents who give their "sex is bad" line, but there are also parents who "push their kids into it because you will anyway". (One mother invited the boy and bought the beer and then left him in the house with the daughter. Fortunately she had a neighbor she could trust and went there.) End of Personal Response |
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| Minuet | Dec 3 2004, 04:06 PM Post #26 |
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Fleet Admiral Assistant wRench, Chief Supper Officer
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School is not a substitute for good parenting. But there are bad parents out there. This is why I believe in teaching these programs in the school. All children need access to the proper information, not only those lucky enough to have good parents. |
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| Dr. Noah | Dec 3 2004, 04:23 PM Post #27 |
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Sistertrek's Asian Correspondant
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Agreed. Education is the way to prevent ignorant mistakes. Simple scolding and saying "Don't do that" fuels defiance. |
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| Dandandat | Dec 3 2004, 04:26 PM Post #28 |
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Time to put something here
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In your opinion - and their inlies the problem. |
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| Dr. Noah | Dec 3 2004, 04:42 PM Post #29 |
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Sistertrek's Asian Correspondant
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Yes, honesty is bad. We should lie to children and hope they don't figure it out.
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| gvok | Dec 3 2004, 04:44 PM Post #30 |
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Unregistered
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Agreed. If sitcoms have taught me anything, it's that when you try to be honest all of the time people start to get mad at you. |
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