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Kids hooning in fast cars on powerful bikes
Topic Started: Nov 27 2004, 01:48 AM (715 Views)
Dandandat
Member Avatar
Time to put something here
doctortobe
Nov 30 2004, 06:43 PM
For the good of merely myself no. But for the good of the greater society, yes indeed.



I do not see good to the greater society in the idea of curtailing basic rights to a portion of the society to keep the other portion more safe. I in fact see a harm - its an tried saying but its true "Those who are willing to give up freedom for a little safety deserve neither freedom nor safety".

Quote:
 
Periods of war have always shown a greater amount of scrutiny put onto those associated with the enemy.  The Civil War, WWI, and WWII all show this trait.


Just because it happend in the past does not make it right.
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doctortobe
Speak softly, and carry a 57 megaton stick!
Quote:
 
I do not see good to the greater society in the idea of curtailing basic rights to a portion of the society to keep the other portion more safe. I in fact see a harm - its an tried saying but its true "Those who are willing to give up freedom for a little safety deserve neither freedom nor safety".


If you believe that stopping people who have flown planes into buildings and decapitated hostages "a little safety", then there is no point in arguing with you. I would instead counter with my own tried and true saying. Something about being lead along like lambs to the slaughterhouse.

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Just because it happend in the past does not make it right.


Just because you do not agree with it does not make it wrong.
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Dandandat
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Time to put something here
doctortobe
Nov 30 2004, 10:00 PM
If you believe that stopping people who have flown planes into buildings and decapitated hostages "a little safety", then there is no point in arguing with you. I would instead counter with my own tried and true saying. Something about being lead along like lambs to the slaughterhouse.

And where did I say I believed that “stopping people who have flown planes into buildings and decapitated hostages "a little safety"”. If you are going to put words in to my mouth their is no point in arguing with you.

What I did say is that I will not treat those who have not flown planes into buildings and decapitated hostages as if they have flown planes into buildings and decapitated hostages just because they have the same color skin as those who have flown planes into buildings and decapitated hostages.



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Quote:
 
Just because it happened in the past does not make it right.


Just because you do not agree with it does not make it wrong.
You are right, I am only stating my opinion, which I know you are doing to, I have never said it was more then that. But because I believe it is wrong I will fight against it if it ever comes to that.
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somerled
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Admiral MacDonald RN
Dandandat
Nov 30 2004, 08:58 AM
somerled
Nov 29 2004, 10:59 PM
It is all too easy for these kids to go and get finance (ie borrow often 100% the price of the car) or borrow or get credit cards to finance their expensive motorised wet dreams.
Most of these kids are heavily in debt in order to have the cars and modifications involved.

The car dealers don't care about the ability of a driver to safely operate the vehicles that they are selling, and they are aways keen to arrange the financing - so they get a commission from the finance company too. One the car drives off their lot it's no longer their problem.
And the finance companies don't care about the ability of the buying to pay, so long as the car is fully insured.

And not all the cars being driven by hoons are brand new or current models - older  cars with big engines are popular (and cheaply had secondhand).

As to thievery - some are - thieves.

Sounds like you have a problem of to easy credit, uncaring car dealers, and thievery (not to mention bad parenting) in your country (and/or your area of your country) that you may want to fix before you start punishing innocent kids for things they did not do to make your life easier. Here in the united states it is every hard for some one with no credit history (those young people 16 to 21) to get a car loan, I tell you from experience I was not able to get a car loan on my own until I was 25 despite the fact that I had a good credit (good but young/small history) and had proof of a job that paid me more then enough to cover it. Banks are just not interested in taking the risk that a youth will default on the loan with out some one with good credit cosigning for it as well.

Yes - that is indeed a problem . It is too easy to get credit here .

The banks, building societies and credit unions are very stringent, but the finance companies and loan sharks aren't , and it's the finance companies who are lending these kids the money.
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doctortobe
Speak softly, and carry a 57 megaton stick!
Quote:
 
And where did I say I believed that “stopping people who have flown planes into buildings and decapitated hostages "a little safety"”. If you are going to put words in to my mouth their is no point in arguing with you.

What I did say is that I will not treat those who have not flown planes into buildings and decapitated hostages as if they have flown planes into buildings and decapitated hostages just because they have the same color skin as those who have flown planes into buildings and decapitated hostages.


And where have I said that it has anything to do with the color of their skin? Talk about putting words in people's mouth. It is the faith that is the problem. I suppose that the Chinese Muslems that were causing trouble don't count because of the color of their skin? Just because they aren't Arabs, the butchers in Chechnya don't count in the whole Islamic terrorist scheme of things? This is not a racial matter, but a cultural one.
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somerled
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Admiral MacDonald RN
doctortobe
Dec 1 2004, 04:15 AM
Quote:
 
And where did I say I believed that “stopping people who have flown planes into buildings and decapitated hostages "a little safety"”. If you are going to put words in to my mouth their is no point in arguing with you.

What I did say is that I will not treat those who have not flown planes into buildings and decapitated hostages as if they have flown planes into buildings and decapitated hostages just because they have the same color skin as those who have flown planes into buildings and decapitated hostages.


And where have I said that it has anything to do with the color of their skin? Talk about putting words in people's mouth. It is the faith that is the problem. I suppose that the Chinese Muslems that were causing trouble don't count because of the color of their skin? Just because they aren't Arabs, the butchers in Chechnya don't count in the whole Islamic terrorist scheme of things? This is not a racial matter, but a cultural one.

Maybe this tangent should go to another thread as it is not relevent here.

Here maybe
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Dandandat
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Time to put something here
doctortobe
Dec 1 2004, 04:15 AM
And where have I said that it has anything to do with the color of their skin?  Talk about putting words in people's mouth.  It is the faith that is the problem.  I suppose that the Chinese Muslems that were causing trouble don't count because of the color of their skin?  Just because they aren't Arabs, the butchers in Chechnya don't count in the whole Islamic terrorist scheme of things?  This is not a racial matter, but a cultural one.

You are right my mistake, I am sorry its not the color if their skin but their religion that bothers you, something just as protected by our constitution as ones race. Let me ask you this though, say we where to round up all the Muslims that live in this country and put them into concentration camps as you suggest. So we go around door to door rounding up Muslims to put in these camps, and we get to Asif’s house, unbeknownst to us Asif is a terrorist - part of a sleeper cell. Now we ask Asif if he is Muslim because we are rounding up Muslims to throw them into our concentration camps, and he says “no sir, I am not a Muslim I was born to a Muslim family but I have denounced that faith a long time ago”. Are you going to say ok and walk away, leaving Asif be?

Sorry Doc, I will never agree that its ok to take away the rights of others for my own personal gain, my own rights mean to much to me then that.
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