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should the law become very tough and restrictive with these cretins.
By raising the age to the 21st birthday for when they can get provisional general drivers' licence unless they need a licence for work (a special permit might granted then). 1 (12.5%)
By invoking curfews for young drivers , even those on unrestricted licences and impounded their vehicles if caught driving in the curfew hours (unless they are working and in uniform and licenced / permitted for driving for work in the curfew), heavy fine 1 (12.5%)
By invoking a one-strike-you're-out policy involving confiscation of their vehicles if they are caught hooning or driving dangerously or reported by the public doing this, very heavy fines , several thousand dollars should also be imposed for this ant 1 (12.5%)
By limiting these inexperienced , immature drivers to ONE PASSENGER and imposing heavy fines if they break this restriction. 2 (25%)
By cancelling their licences and confiscating their vehicle if they break ANY road rules. 1 (12.5%)
By jailing them if they are could driving unlicenced , uninsured and/or unroadworthy/supedup vehicles. 1 (12.5%)
By restricting them vehicle with engine capacities less than 1200CC and not allowing them to ride motor bikes (at all) and no allowing V6 and V8 vehicles to be sold to them or driven by them. 1 (12.5%)
Total Votes: 8
Kids hooning in fast cars on powerful bikes
Topic Started: Nov 27 2004, 01:48 AM (716 Views)
somerled
Member Avatar
Admiral MacDonald RN
Spin off from CP's post about hoons killed recently in NSW (in terrific accidents - and you would have to have seen these vehicles afterwards to appreciate the carnage involved - truely horrific)
You pick as many options as you want, if you have others feel free to contribute them.

captain_proton_au
Nov 26 2004, 10:57 PM
Hmmmm, that sounds like a hard time to have to go through, my condolensces

We've had a spate of bad accidents invloving young people lately, as a result of speed or drink driving. There was a very sad one last week when a 19yr old took out his dads car without him knowing, all three in the car died, one was a pregnant 15 yr old, a waste to die at that age

Yep - I heard and could see the hoons drag racing along Wharf road (across the water), doing burn-outs and tossing doenuts, all night last night (well from midnight when I turned up at Stockton Wall), these kids are just plain stupid and have absolutely no regard for the law, or anyone else's safety on the road and were at right up to about an hour before the dawn). It must be hell for the residents of Newcastle (Parnell Place, and near Ft Scratchleys, and Honeysuckle) as these cretins are at it everynight , but especially Wednesday thro Sunday nights. They seem to know when the cops are on the prowl and disappear for while when they cops are prowling, only to come back - like flies to a picnic when the cops disappear.

It's the main reason why I have tended to fish over the Stockton side of the harbour in last few years, I've had too many near misses and seen too many of these guys becoming agressive and actually using their vehicles - or stolen or borrowed vehicles as weapons to settle arguments.

Something has to be to curtail the antisocial and stupid and dangerous behaviour of these cretins - and that's what they are - CRETINS.
If they kill themselves - then that's fine , we don't need their contribution to the genepool - so long as they don't kill innocents in the process (which they so often do.)

I believe that a ONE STRIKE YOU'RE OUT policy has be applied with these people (and it's not just guys), the police have got to get tough with them and confiscate there vehicles and cancel their drivers' licences when they are caught acting suspiciuously (or reported by the public) and if they are then found behind the wheel afterwards - put them in prison. The law is not near enough tough enough on this.
They should - I think be banned from driving fast powerful cars and perhaps the age when they can get their P's moved to their 21st birthday when - hopefully they will be a mature enough, and they must not be allowed to drive these vehicles with more than 1200 CC engine capacities while on their P's , or have more than one passenger onboard.
A curfew might also be useful - and their vehicle impounded if they are caught driving in the curfew unless it is work associated - a special licence should be introduced to get around this for those who are driving to earn a living.
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Dandandat
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Time to put something here
Quote:
 
By raising the age to the 21st birthday for when they can get provisional general drivers' licence unless they need a licence for work (a special permit might granted then).
Impossible, I don’t know how Australia is, but here in the US to many responsible people under the age of 21 relay on cars to get them to and from work/school just as much as any one over 21.

Quote:
 
By invoking curfews for young drivers , even those on unrestricted licences and impounded their vehicles if caught driving in the curfew hours (unless they are working and in uniform and licenced / permitted for driving for work in the curfew), heavy fines should be imposed for this too.
First I don’t know what “uniformed” means so I am assuming it means they are going to school. I would have to be told the curfew hours before I would consider this one. Again many responsible relay on cars into the night hours.

Quote:
 
By invoking a one-strike-you're-out policy involving confiscation of their vehicles if they are caught hooning or driving dangerously or reported by the public doing this, very heavy fines , several thousand dollars should also be imposed for this antisocial and hazardous behaviour.
Absolutely not, I would never give the power of a one-strike-you're-out policy to any old member of the populace it would be way to easy to abuse. In fact I don’t think I would put the power of any traffic law in the hands of any old member of the populace as it would be to essay to abuse

Quote:
 
By limiting these inexperienced , immature drivers to ONE PASSENGER and imposing heavy fines if they break this restriction..
Again imposable as many responsible people under the age of 21 relay on cars to get them to and from work/school just as much as any one over 21. Not all of them have the luxury of having a passenger. Also who can be a passenger the school buddy who may be just as inexperienced and immature.

Quote:
 
By cancelling their licences and confiscating their vehicle if they break ANY road rules.
It’s so easy to brake a road rule, responsible drivers over 21 do it form time to time. To revoke a license for breaking “ANY” road rules is over kill. Change it to any criminal act (as in speeding over a certain limit (that limit is different depending on where you are) and I would agree with it.

Quote:
 
By jailing them if they are could driving unlicenced , uninsured and/or unroadworthy/supedup vehicles.
Unroadworthy is way to vague and subjective a word to impose jail time over. Also I would not Jail anyone simply because they supped up their vehicles, again its to vague and subjective a word. There are already rules emplace to keep some of the more dangerous vehicle modifications of the roads.

Quote:
 
By restricting them vehicle with engine capacities less than 1200CC and not allowing them to ride motor bikes (at all) and no allowing V6 and V8 vehicles to be sold to them or driven by them.
I would think that a them vehicle with engine capacities less than 1200CC can kill just as easy as any other vehicle, when man meets machine the machine is going to win every time. I would be willing to say that only people over 21 are able to ride motor bikes (but then again I am sure there are statistics out their that show accidence are quite high got 20 to 30 years old that this wont even make a dent.)


So no I really cant pick any of the choices as they just aren’t right. My solution, that unless the child is estranged form their parents, that the parent is the one responsible for the misconduct of the child. For example if I am under my parents insurance and I kill some one they should be responsible for the burden of justices (even if this means jail time). This will insure that a parent takes an active role in what their kid does, and if for some reason the kid is a bad seed and they parent doesn’t want to be resistible it will cut the child lose severely limiting the childes ability to do wrong (Ie if he cant afforded a car he won’t have one).
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somerled
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Admiral MacDonald RN
Dandandat
Nov 27 2004, 11:46 AM
Quote:
 
By raising the age to the 21st birthday for when they can get provisional general drivers' licence unless they need a licence for work (a special permit might granted then).
Impossible, I don’t know how Australia is, but here in the US to many responsible people under the age of 21 relay on cars to get them to and from work/school just as much as any one over 21.

Quote:
 
By invoking curfews for young drivers , even those on unrestricted licences and impounded their vehicles if caught driving in the curfew hours (unless they are working and in uniform and licenced / permitted for driving for work in the curfew), heavy fines should be imposed for this too.
First I don’t know what “uniformed” means so I am assuming it means they are going to school. I would have to be told the curfew hours before I would consider this one. Again many responsible relay on cars into the night hours.

Quote:
 
By invoking a one-strike-you're-out policy involving confiscation of their vehicles if they are caught hooning or driving dangerously or reported by the public doing this, very heavy fines , several thousand dollars should also be imposed for this antisocial and hazardous behaviour.
Absolutely not, I would never give the power of a one-strike-you're-out policy to any old member of the populace it would be way to easy to abuse. In fact I don’t think I would put the power of any traffic law in the hands of any old member of the populace as it would be to essay to abuse

Quote:
 
By limiting these inexperienced , immature drivers to ONE PASSENGER and imposing heavy fines if they break this restriction..
Again imposable as many responsible people under the age of 21 relay on cars to get them to and from work/school just as much as any one over 21. Not all of them have the luxury of having a passenger. Also who can be a passenger the school buddy who may be just as inexperienced and immature.

Quote:
 
By cancelling their licences and confiscating their vehicle if they break ANY road rules.
It’s so easy to brake a road rule, responsible drivers over 21 do it form time to time. To revoke a license for breaking “ANY” road rules is over kill. Change it to any criminal act (as in speeding over a certain limit (that limit is different depending on where you are) and I would agree with it.

Quote:
 
By jailing them if they are could driving unlicenced , uninsured and/or unroadworthy/supedup vehicles.
Unroadworthy is way to vague and subjective a word to impose jail time over. Also I would not Jail anyone simply because they supped up their vehicles, again its to vague and subjective a word. There are already rules emplace to keep some of the more dangerous vehicle modifications of the roads.

Quote:
 
By restricting them vehicle with engine capacities less than 1200CC and not allowing them to ride motor bikes (at all) and no allowing V6 and V8 vehicles to be sold to them or driven by them.
I would think that a them vehicle with engine capacities less than 1200CC can kill just as easy as any other vehicle, when man meets machine the machine is going to win every time. I would be willing to say that only people over 21 are able to ride motor bikes (but then again I am sure there are statistics out their that show accidence are quite high got 20 to 30 years old that this wont even make a dent.)


So no I really cant pick any of the choices as they just aren’t right. My solution, that unless the child is estranged form their parents, that the parent is the one responsible for the misconduct of the child. For example if I am under my parents insurance and I kill some one they should be responsible for the burden of justices (even if this means jail time). This will insure that a parent takes an active role in what their kid does, and if for some reason the kid is a bad seed and they parent doesn’t want to be resistible it will cut the child lose severely limiting the childes ability to do wrong (Ie if he cant afforded a car he won’t have one).

If there is will on the part of the law makers, then there will be a way fouund.

Uniformed - ie wearing work gear while on the job, it could be as simple as a Pizza Hut shirt with the Pizza Hut's logo on one of the front pockets and the kid's name. Many people who work in service and manufacturing industries are issued "uniforms" so that's not a big deal.

One strike and you lost your licence applied when I was learner and then a driver with a provisional licence. It worked fine then , so there is no reason why it could be applied now.

1200cc is pretty woeful as far a performance is concerned - I know - because my first car was 1200cc Datsun 120Y and ,well, it got me to and from work and out and about, and I think the top speed it was capable of (if you believed the speedometer and you were crazy enough to drive that fast was 160 km per hour, and it ran on the smell of an oily rag too. Yep it could be driven in lethal manner too , but it was not built to do that and you would be hard pressed to hoon about as you can in 4 litre 6 cyl or powerful V8 that many of these inexperienced drivers are going out and buying, often secondhand with mechanical faults and hidden safety defects.

Unroadworthy , like disconnecting the rear breaks, suping up engines and all those other tweeks they get up to.

Must have been a bad prang on Wharf Road or up in Nobby's carpark , there were cops all over it tonight and they were pulling over kids in flash or done up cars most the night, and had to give chase to several of them. Good to see.
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DEFIANT
Commodore
I have noticed that though people may mature between 17-21 it doesn't mean much with cars. Because those kind of irresponsible poeple would still consider them toys at 21. And if they're not irresponsible, but instead inexperienced, then I would prefer to let them learn earlier. Then all the inexperienced drivers would be 21, so then they'd need to change it to 22, etc....(that's called a possibility, not a logical fact).
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Dandandat
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Time to put something here
somerled
Nov 27 2004, 12:54 PM
If there is will on the part of the law makers, then there will be a way fouund.


The only other way is not make a masstransit system that is as independent and accessible as if one where to dived where they had to go. Since that system doe not exists in areas where this is a major problem then it is imposable to raise the legal driving age to 21. There are just to many 16(give or take) to 21 year olds (and their famlies) that relay on having their own transpiration.

Quote:
 
Uniformed - ie wearing work gear while on the job, it could be as simple as a Pizza Hut shirt with the Pizza Hut's logo on one of the front pockets and the kid's name. Many people who work in service and manufacturing industries are issued "uniforms" so that's not a big deal.
I see thanks for clarifying that. But I must say, between the ages of 16 to 21 I had a hand a few jobs that did not require me to have a uniform as they where not in the retail or fast food industries. I relied on my car to get me their (and school, as well as other things I needed to do for my self and my family). So no I can not agree to the need of a uniform to drive a car, there are just to many other possibilities.

Quote:
 
One strike and you lost your licence applied when I was learner and then a driver with a provisional licence. It worked fine then , so there is no reason why it could be applied now.
That’s good for you, I just don’t agree with it. First I do not agree with the idea that any person with a grudge can get you in trouble (or the little old lady down the street that complains about everything). and Second its to easy to make a minor traffic violation, people over 21 do it all the time. Unless you are willing to say this rule is for the life time of a drive I just do not see why it would be fair for those under 21.

Quote:
 
1200cc is pretty woeful as far a performance is concerned - I know - because my first car was 1200cc Datsun 120Y and ,well, it got me to and from work and out and about, and I think the top speed it was capable of (if you believed the speedometer and you were crazy enough to drive that fast was 160 km per hour, and it ran on the smell of an oily rag too. Yep it could be driven in lethal manner too , but it was not built to do that and you would be hard pressed to hoon about as you can in 4 litre 6 cyl or powerful V8 that many of these inexperienced drivers are going out and buying, often secondhand with mechanical faults and hidden safety defects.
160 km per hour

Quote:
 
Unroadworthy , like disconnecting the rear breaks, suping up engines and all those other tweeks they get up to.
Oh the car is Unroadworthy that makes a lot more since. But they already have laws in place for that for people of all ages. A car must pass an inspection in many places before they can be driven on the road. If A car is unroadworth (disconnecting the rear breaks) it will not pass the inspection. If a car is found to be made unraodworth after an inspection and it is still driven the own gets in trouble (fines/jail time). Where I live we must get an inspection very 12 months on our vehicles.

Quote:
 
Must have been a bad prang on Wharf Road or up in Nobby's carpark , there were cops all over it tonight and they were pulling over kids in flash or done up cars most the night, and had to give chase to several of them. Good to see.
Looks like you have a parenting problem in your neck of the woods. Maybe you should hold a town meeting on it.

You want to punish all for the actions of a few, that is not right and I can not agree with it.
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somerled
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Admiral MacDonald RN
Quote:
 
QUOTE 
1200cc is pretty woeful as far a performance is concerned - I know - because my first car was 1200cc Datsun 120Y and ,well, it got me to and from work and out and about, and I think the top speed it was capable of (if you believed the speedometer and you were crazy enough to drive that fast was 160 km per hour, and it ran on the smell of an oily rag too. Yep it could be driven in lethal manner too , but it was not built to do that and you would be hard pressed to hoon about as you can in 4 litre 6 cyl or powerful V8 that many of these inexperienced drivers are going out and buying, often secondhand with mechanical faults and hidden safety defects. 160 km per hour
Pretty sure it something like that - I never got it over 120 km per hour - and that as run to Sydney, it was hard pressed to keep up with the traffic - expecially heading up from Peats Ridge.

Quote:
 

Must have been a bad prang on Wharf Road or up in Nobby's carpark , there were cops all over it tonight and they were pulling over kids in flash or done up cars most the night, and had to give chase to several of them. Good to see.

Looks like you have a parenting problem in your neck of the woods. Maybe you should hold a town meeting on it.


Its mostly kids from the Central Coast and West Sydney and even Woolongong who come up to hoon and make trouble. I don't know why they come to Newcastle, that's what my cop nephews tell me.
There have been town meetings, Wharf Road was made out of bounds to parking and loitering in cars and cruising a couple of years ago (10pm to 5am as a result), but it doesn't seem to worry these kids, who make a pest of themselves on Wharf Road and the nearby foreshore areas.
They also make a disturbance at Merrewether Beach (the locals there can't sleep nights for maxed out car speekers and reving cars and burnouts) , and on stretches of straight road on Kooragang Is.


Quote:
 
QUOTE 
Unroadworthy , like disconnecting the rear breaks, suping up engines and all those other tweeks they get up to.

Oh the car is Unroadworthy that makes a lot more since. But they already have laws in place for that for people of all ages. A car must pass an inspection in many places before they can be driven on the road. If A car is unroadworth (disconnecting the rear breaks) it will not pass the inspection. If a car is found to be made unraodworth after an inspection and it is still driven the own gets in trouble (fines/jail time). Where I live we must get an inspection very 12 months on our vehicles.

Annual rego checks apply here too.

They disconnect the front or back breaklines and plug these break fluid lines (I am told) to make burnouts and doenuts in car parks and to drag race. they also pore oil on the road or parking lot where they are doing these things. This I've seen them doing - they can make huge clouds of smoke that way with the rear wheels (or front wheels if front wheel drive).
And reconnect them later.
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Ngagh
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Huh?
How about none of the above?
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Minuet
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Fleet Admiral Assistant wRench, Chief Supper Officer
Ngagh - what do you think of the graduated licence system we have here in Ontario.

Graduated Licensing
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Dandandat
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Time to put something here
Min, explain to me the system (I have read what you linked) it seems a little redundant What is the point of having a second road test?

Here in NY a new driver must take a written test as well as an eye exam in order to get a learners permit witch is similar to your G1. Many of the same rules apply, most importantly you must drive with an adult (and I believe that adult must be your guardian – not just any adult but don’t quite me on that) and there are time as well as road restrictions. But then after a certain time period (6 months to a year, I will have to look it up) holding that permit you go for your drivers test. After that you are a full fledged driver. According to your system you have a G2 at this point, and then must take another test to become a full fledged driver. But yet the only restrictions you have at G2 are “maintain a zero blood alcohol level while driving” and “ensure the number of passengers in the vehicle is limited to the number of working seat belts.” – two things that really should be adhered to no matter what your level of driving is. It seems to me the G2 level and the G2 drivers test seem nothing more then window paint unless I am missing something.
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Admiralbill_gomec
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WTF does "hooning" mean?
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somerled
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Admiral MacDonald RN
Minuet
Nov 27 2004, 02:54 PM
Ngagh - what do you think of the graduated licence system we have here in Ontario.

Graduated Licensing

Tell us more.
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somerled
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Admiral MacDonald RN
Admiralbill_gomec
Nov 27 2004, 04:26 PM
WTF does "hooning" mean?

Dangerous - antisocial - illegal driving behaviours that are engaged in using powerful high performance cars (or stolen cars) to impress (someone).
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Ngagh
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Huh?
Minuet
Nov 27 2004, 03:54 PM
Ngagh - what do you think of the graduated licence system we have here in Ontario.

Graduated Licensing

I got my G1 about 10 months ago, and I will soon be able to get my G2. I have gone through numerous courses that have taught me how to drive safely, so I could get my liscence in less time. I do not want a car to race it. The car I am going to get tops out at a little over 120km, which is sad when you consider that most people that drive on Ontario highways drive at upwards of that speed. I drive because I live 20km away from my school, and I will not be getting busing next semester.

I do not like this broad generalization about teen drivers all wanting to race there cars. Thats not my kind of kicks.

I like the graduated licence system we have here in Ontario. It is far for everyone. The stages of the liscense allow for new drivers to gradually become adept at drivering.
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Ngagh
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Huh?
somerled
Nov 27 2004, 05:47 PM
Dangerous

Yup

Quote:
 
antisocial

It's hardly anti-social. If you are trying to impress someone how is it anti-social? It's racing is part of pop culture now. I doubt that it is anti-social

Quote:
 
illegal driving behaviours that are engaged in using powerful high performance cars (or stolen cars) to impress (someone).


Another broad generalization. According to you, these people are teens. How are they supposed to:

1) Have enough money to get the parts to modify their car into high performance car. There is high school! They have no money. If they have a car, they won't have the money for modify it. You've been watching "The Fast and the Furious" to much.

2) Have skills to know how to jack cars. Most new cars need to have so many security systems, you need to be a nuclear physicist to get into them.

When I get my car, I will be paying insurance more than twice that of a driver who is twice my age, and get their liscense at the same time as me. This is blantant ageism.
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Minuet
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Ngagh - unfortunatly you will be paying higher rates because statistics show that new drivers (not all are teens) have more accidents. You pay according to statistical risk because you do not have a personal record yet. You may be more responsible then the other new drivers - but you need to prove this and time is the only way to do that.

Dante - as to your questions - I don't know all the details off hand but I know there are restrictions on driving at night and driving on super highways until after one has extra driving experience. The point is to try and keep teens out of dangerous situations - although the rules do apply to all new drivers whether teens or adults. I gather the point of the second road test is to ensure that newer drivers have not picked up bad habits in thier first year of driving and to ensure they have the skill to drive at higher speeds on super highways. I did not have to go through this system when I got my licence many years ago - but judging from Ngagh's comments obviously the teens of today do not feel this is an unfair system. They are willing to take the extra time to get the extra privledges. It has probably helped to keep insurance rates a little bit lower for them as well.
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