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Bizarre and Very Sad; Warning: Disturbing
Topic Started: Nov 24 2004, 11:07 AM (557 Views)
Dandandat
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Time to put something here
gvok
Nov 24 2004, 12:18 PM
It is interesting that many people who are anti abortion are pro death penalty and vice versa.

Not really, if one premises they are against the taking of an "innocent life" and not all life in geranial.

But I am glad I do not have to walk that fine line, I am for both Capital punishment and abortion. I just wish abortion had at lest a tenth of the level of safe grads and contemplation given to Capital Punishment.
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24thcenstfan
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Something Wicked This Fae Comes
gvok
Nov 24 2004, 12:18 PM
It is interesting that many people who are anti abortion are pro death penalty and vice versa.

Yes, interesting. In the case of a pro-abortion (or pro-choice) and an anti-death penalty individual, I would say the level of development of the human being has something to do with supporting abortion and being against killing a full grown person.

Personally, I am pro-choice (pro-abortion whatever the trendy term is today) and pro-death penalty. My views on abortion are affected somewhat by the development stage of the baby and my pro-death penalty stance is affected by many things (including proportional justice/sentence). The more heinous the crime, the harsher the punishment should be in my opinion. Meaning, depending on the circumstance of how you (in the general sense) ended the life of another, I would support the state taking your life in return (a proportional response).

So to speculate on an anti-abortion/pro-death penalty stance… I would say in many cases, that position is based on religion and proportional justice. Abortion would be murder (e.g. prohibited in the Bible). However, killing someone via the death penalty wouldn't be considered murder. In addition, they may subscribe to the method of proportional justice that I mentioned. At least that is the way I understand it. Maybe someone who takes an anti-abortion/pro-death penalty stance could elaborate.
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Fesarius
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Admiral
I can't recall which poster said it, but I do know that I am against abortion and against the death penalty. I think consistency is important. :)
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gvok
Unregistered

Fesarius
Nov 24 2004, 02:08 PM
I can't recall which poster said it, but I do know that I am against abortion and against the death penalty. I think consistency is important. :)

You're doing a good job with that oath you took. Keep up the good work. :)
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doctortobe
Speak softly, and carry a 57 megaton stick!
What is wrong with being against abortion and for the death penalty? In the case of abortion, the unborn child has done nothing to deserve death. In the case of the death penalty, the criminal has acted in some way to deserve that fate.

There are totally different reasons for the stances and it is impossible to equate them.
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Dwayne
Profanity deleted by Hoss
captain_proton_au
Nov 24 2004, 11:37 AM
The trouble with that argument is that you can go backwards and use it to say that contraception is also murder

Flawed logic.

Human sperm or a human egg, alone and without any form of intervention, will never develop into a human being.

You can argue over the point of viability of a fetus, but a fetus - if all things go well - will develop into a baby.
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Sgt. Jaggs
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How about a Voyager Movie
An interesting yet flawed concept. Contraception changes FATE if one believes in such things. Morally, if one predates conception, life has not begun right?
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captain_proton_au
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A Robot in Disguise

Dwayne
Nov 24 2004, 07:27 PM
captain_proton_au
Nov 24 2004, 11:37 AM
The trouble with that argument is that you can go backwards and use it to say that contraception is also murder

Flawed logic.

Human sperm or a human egg, alone and without any form of intervention, will never develop into a human being.

You can argue over the point of viability of a fetus, but a fetus - if all things go well - will develop into a baby.

Read over the posts again to see what was being said
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Dwayne
Profanity deleted by Hoss
captain_proton_au
Nov 25 2004, 10:55 AM
Dwayne
Nov 24 2004, 07:27 PM
captain_proton_au
Nov 24 2004, 11:37 AM
The trouble with that argument is that you can go backwards and use it to say that contraception is also murder

Flawed logic.

Human sperm or a human egg, alone and without any form of intervention, will never develop into a human being.

You can argue over the point of viability of a fetus, but a fetus - if all things go well - will develop into a baby.

Read over the posts again to see what was being said

I already had when I wrote it. I still think the logic is flawed.
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cptjeff
Captain of the Enterprise-J
That is horrendus. How did this wacko slip through the net?

as for turning this into an abortion discussion? tasteless.
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doctortobe
Speak softly, and carry a 57 megaton stick!
Why is it tasteless?
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captain_proton_au
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A Robot in Disguise

^^^

Because the poor little kid had his arms chopped off by a deranged mother, and some want to use this thread to enforce political discussions on abortion, it made me mad, and I thought it was tasteless.

Lets at least include a discussion on the inadequacies of Child protection services
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ANOVA
Vice Admiral
Quote:
 
I would say the level of development of the human being has something to do with supporting abortion and being against killing a full grown person.


So toddlers and adolescentes arefair game?

What abount mental developement? We can kill all the emotionally challenged.

What one developmental change occurs the instant after birth that you can point to and say "that makes them human, without it they are free to kill"? What's the qulity or behavior that differentiates a supportable death from murder in your eyes".


Dante:

Strongly made point. Well done. I believe that the reason why we witnessed so many babies in garbage cans in the past was due to the inability of the pro abortion crowd to explain why a womens right to choose ends at birth.

ANOVA
"I brought you into this world, I can take you out"~ dear ol' mom
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24thcenstfan
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Something Wicked This Fae Comes
ANOVA
Nov 27 2004, 10:39 AM
Quote:
 
I would say the level of development of the human being has something to do with supporting abortion and being against killing a full grown person.


So toddlers and adolescentes arefair game?

Can you be anymore ridiculous? The answer is No.

Quote:
 
What abount mental developement? We can kill all the emotionally challenged.

Again with the silly questions. The answer is No...in regards to those that have been born (no longer inside the mother's womb).

Quote:
 
What one developmental change occurs the instant after birth that you can point to and say "that makes them human, without it they are free to kill"? What's the qulity or behavior that differentiates a supportable death from murder in your eyes".

In general, I do not consider abortion murder. I find abortion acceptable if it is performed no later than the first trimester (one reason is based on the level of development of the embryo/fetus…that is as much as I will elaborate). The only exception is if the life of the mother is in danger. If someone (including the mother) takes the life of the being growing inside the mother, after the legal abortion period has passed and the life of the mother isn’t in danger, then I would probably consider it murder in some degree (it would be up the courts to decide what degree and punishment).

If you take the life of another, after they have been born, then I would consider it murder in some degree (to be determined by a court of law) except in cases of: self defense, if euthanasia is legal in your state, DNRs (do not resuscitate orders) and the death penalty. I do not consider the use of the death penalty murder.

These are all very generalized opinions. I would have to look at each case and set of circumstances to determine if it were killing vs. murder.
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fireh8er
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I'm Captain Kirk!
I heard about this this story earlier this week and I cried. That's a damn shame. That baby did nothing to deserve that! A week earlier, a woman down the street from me let two of her children starve to death.

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/200500_kent20.html

Children are blessings. They are to be loved and protected.
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