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| US Military Sees Need For Bigger Iraq Force | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Nov 22 2004, 10:10 AM (1,177 Views) | |
| somerled | Nov 25 2004, 06:40 AM Post #61 |
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Admiral MacDonald RN
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This is not current but gives some indication of number of casaulties requiring medical evacuations (as off Feb) The unseen cost of the war in Iraq , a gross understatement by the Pentagon it would seem. |
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| doctortobe | Nov 25 2004, 06:58 AM Post #62 |
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Speak softly, and carry a 57 megaton stick!
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The number of wounded is regretful, but compared to other conflicts the numbers are miniscule. |
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| somerled | Nov 25 2004, 12:30 PM Post #63 |
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Admiral MacDonald RN
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You might not see it that way if you were one of them, or related or married to one of them. Especially since they are not recieving recognition on coming home or for their sacrifice - which in many cases is significant and life long. |
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| doctortobe | Nov 25 2004, 11:23 PM Post #64 |
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Speak softly, and carry a 57 megaton stick!
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Every soldier who enters combat knows that the worst case scenario might come to pass. If you had ANY military experiance, you might realize that. I am being trained for a command role, I look at things in a large scale tactical view. I know that there will be casualties, and that at this point the casualties could be MUCH WORSE. I am therefore glad that they are not much worse. However, I am sorry for those who have been wounded and died, but they knew that risk was there when they signed up. However, those wounded and dead serve nothing more then a platform from which to ridicule other to you it seems. |
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| ImpulseEngine | Nov 25 2004, 11:56 PM Post #65 |
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Admiral
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Oh please! Lighten up! Making fun of soldiers never even entered my mind. Quite on the contrary, if you read what I said again, I'm CONCERNED ABOUT THEIR LIVES! Are you...? Is Bush...? [Begin Soapbox] Sure, just send more troops. Whatever you say Mr. President.
While you're at it, send as many as you want Mr. President. Heck send them all! We have no need for troops anywhere else in the world. Didn't you hear? Terrorism has been completely stamped out now thanks to your administration. There's no need for the Iraqis to start taking care of themselves now either. And it doesn't matter that you've done such a lousy job with Iraq Mr. President; you can always cover your mistakes with more lives.
Don't worry, it will work out eventually no matter how many lives it takes! But it won't take many because combat has been over for nearly a year and a half now! And besides, you're nice and protected behind your secret service pals.
Not that you ever would have put yourself in the path of enemy fire anyway Mr. "Please Daddy get me in the National Guard now, I don't want to die". What a guy!
:rolleyes: Is Bush...? :no::no::no::no::no: :rolleyes: |
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| somerled | Nov 26 2004, 01:17 AM Post #66 |
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Admiral MacDonald RN
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Aren't you hoping to train eventually as surgion ? You will be nice and safe , well in the rear , and not likely to be ordering men and women in a combat situation - so unless I have read your career aspirations wrong, and you are training to be a line officer, I would dare say you are talking garbage - or just book learnt military theory. Your callousness is disgusting. |
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| Admiralbill_gomec | Nov 27 2004, 04:57 PM Post #67 |
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UberAdmiral
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Your cowardice is disgusting. You belittle someone who is an actual member of the armed forces from the comfort of your easy chair? You know ABSOLUTELY NOTHING, you useless puke. Crawl back under your nice comfy rock and we'll protect your worthless carcass. YOU are disgusting. |
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| somerled | Nov 28 2004, 05:35 AM Post #68 |
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Admiral MacDonald RN
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True to style Bill. Your views are your business - you have only served to show yourself for what you are. I think Doctortobe is big enough to stick up for himself without you butting in on his behalf, and, he is not likely ever to be a frontline commander or find himself underfire as a surgeon-officer, he'll be well in the rear, and he is a long way from finishing his medical training as well as once he finishes his medical degree, he will need to engage in specialist surgical training (registraship etc before he becomes a fully trained and licenced surgeon). You know that (or maybe you don't) and certainly he knows that. |
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| Fesarius | Nov 28 2004, 02:05 PM Post #69 |
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Admiral
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Admiral, I thank you for your service to my country. Because of you and people like you, I am a free citizen, and am able to live my life as I see fit. Thank you.
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| doctortobe | Nov 28 2004, 10:10 PM Post #70 |
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Speak softly, and carry a 57 megaton stick!
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That is my hope, but I am being trained to be a frontline commander. You don't get to just choose what career you have in the Army, you get to put down your top 10 desired fields and the Army will try to put you in one based on its own needs. I will have to ASK the Army whether or not I can delay my entry into the service to complete medical school. They would have every right to deny me that ability for several reasons such as the lack of officers in other branches and an overabundance of doctors at that time. As it is, I am being trained along with all the other cadets to lead Platoon and Company sized elements of INFANTRY. All cadets are trained in this way BECAUSE IN THE MODERN WORLD OF WARFARE ANY SOLIDER IN THE ARMY MAY IN FACT ENGAGE THE ENEMY. Just how do you believe that I would be "well in the rear" in a scenario like Iraq? The enemy has the ability to infiltrate throughout the country. Even the Green Zone, which is supposed to be the safest military area in Iraq, receives mortar fire every now and then. I suppose that I would NEVER be attacked in a convoy if I were moving from place to place. And, since I may become a Battalion Surgeon, there is even a decent chance that I will be sent out with the units if my Battalion Commander decides that I should do so. Hell, I would even volunteer because a soldier's ability to survive a wound is primarily dependant on getting him to a medical facility alive. Of course, you once again feel that your criticism is somehow justified even though YOU will spend your life fishing and not putting your balls on the line for anybody else. |
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| somerled | Nov 28 2004, 11:28 PM Post #71 |
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Admiral MacDonald RN
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So you are not on a military scholarship to get your premed and medical training at university ? We have several guys and girls in my department who are having their studies 100% funded by the ADF , they are just expected to take up a commission in their chosen service and field at the end of their studies - in my case the one's I know are doing electrical engineering , communications engineering , computer engineering, computer science and physics (and mostly hoping to become specialist officers in the RAAF or RAN), I'm not sure what they do doing the long summer breaks.. I think part of the contract involves signing up for minimum period of service in their areas of expertise. The guy doing physics is a trainee pilot based at Williamtown Airbase, he hopes to fly flighters eventually , he wears his uniform and has some junior commissioned officer grade - not sure what rank it is. Essentiallyunder the ADF scheme they recieve a salary , and medical and health benefits just like as if they were actually in the ADF and all uni fees and books and costs are covered including HECS - provided they remain full time and pass their subjects - just like any other cadetship. I'm not sure what happens of they bombout - guess they become ncos and have to serve their time. They don't have to wear a uniform, but some do . Is this not the sort of scheme you are studying under ? As a surgeon you could wind up anywhere in the world - that is true - the USA military has huge medical hospitals in several countries - and this is where seriously injured soldiers wind up being evacuated to - once stabilised. Do MASH units still exist ? (as portrayed in MASH - these were also in the rear but closer - within helicopter range of the front ) In the case of Iraq that would likely be a place like Kuwait or Saudi Arabia or even a big hospital ship on station somewhere nearby in the Gulf after Iraq is not that big a country - could fly just about anywhere there in a medivac helicopter in a very short period.
So , what's wrong with that ? When you are bit older (maybe another 25 years under your belt) and have a family to concider you perhaps will see things the same way as I do - ie family comes first and second and third , and that patriotism and heroics are luxuries you (your family) can't afford (you endulge in) ,and, anyway these things really don't apply here anyway. |
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| Dwayne | Nov 28 2004, 11:34 PM Post #72 |
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Profanity deleted by Hoss
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You're so full of it. |
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| somerled | Nov 29 2004, 12:13 AM Post #73 |
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Admiral MacDonald RN
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Think so ? Oh well - I'll not loose any sleep over your opinion of me. Here's a map of Iraq http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/middle_east.../iraq_rel99.jpg (edited for size, the link works to see the map) Baghdad is close to the centre of Iraq and is only 300 - 400 km from the coast or Turkey , and SA is closer . Like I said - Iraq's not that big a country - it's tiny actually (geographically), only about 1/4 the area of my state - NSW. (437,072 sq km cf 1,727,196 sq km for NSW). You could easily drive the distance in a few hours if the roads weren't mined , or dangerous or in poor repair or villians weren't everywhere. So a helicopter would easily cover that distance in a lot less than an hour. |
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| doctortobe | Nov 29 2004, 12:36 AM Post #74 |
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Speak softly, and carry a 57 megaton stick!
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I DESIRE to be a surgeon, but in the eyes of the Army I am a cadet who is training to be an officer and that is that. That means that I will receive the training for a cadet that will be most beneficial to an officer regardless of my branch. This training is in leading Platoon and Company sized elements through various combat conditions. Once my training is complete, I will attend an Accessions Board to receive my branch. The cadets that excel in the program are given the branch of choice and are put into leadership roles in active units. Those that fare worse get put into other positions. This is because there are branches of the Army (like Chemical) which are not popular to the vast majority of cadets and yet the positions need to be filled. There are also branches (like Aviation) that a large majority of cadets would like to be in and yet there aren't enough spaces available to put them all in. Ergo, the program is highly competetive. Those that excel the best are given the best jobs. Those that do the worst are put on inactive reserve spots and will never see combat. Even with this system, it is possible that high quality cadets can get denied their field of choice. If there is a larger number of high quality cadets that want aviation then there are aviation slots, then some high quality cadets will be put in other branches (ususally their second choice) that have slots available. Given this, if the demand for doctors goes down in the Army, or the number of applicants goes up, there is a chance that I might not be able to branch Medical. It is a very slight chance, but it is there nonetheless. Because this chance exists for ALL cadets, your training is specific to tactics that will apply to ALL branches. In essence, I know how to lead large numbers of soldiers in battle. For a Medical branch, this would be a worst case scenario, but one that could easily happen. There is no such thing as a completely secure area in a war zone. So, to answer your question, the Army is not training me to be a doctor YET. The Army is training me to be a Lieutenant and THEN, based on my own achievements and the needs of the Army (which overrides all personal wishes), they will decide whether or not they want to send me to medical school or to put me in another unit (like Infantry). Therefore, my knowledge of combat is inclusive to the point that I could be in command of such a unit.
MASH units were done away with in the eary 90's. There are still medical units (I am currently in the 700th Support Charlie Med), but these can be deployed to a wide variety of areas. They can indeed be stationed in areas outside the Area of Operations. However, they could also be deployed to a place like a Battalion or Brigade AA (Assembly Area). This place is like a huge bullseye and is frequently attacked. Wounded are taken back to the AA (usually) to be assessed and stabilized and then sent on to another destination based on the severity of their wound (back to their unit, to a hospital outside the AO, or even back to the States for the worst cases). However, after the medics have done all they can to keep the soldier alive, there is always a designated area where casualties are sent that is very close to the battle line. If the command structure of these units (G/S team) is considered secure in this place, then a medical area should be as well. It would be very risky to set up medical areas only far behind the AO because: 1. A wounded soldier might need treatment ASAP and would not survive a long trip. 2. An ambulance or medevac helicopter might not be able to reach the area (so they will be evacuated on foot). 3. Said ambulances and choppers spend less time in transit the closer the medical facilities are to the CCP (casualty collection point) and are therefore able to medevac more wounded then if they were far behind the AO. So no, medical areas are not necessarily behind "the front lines".
I'm merely saying that you are quick to berate others to take risks that you yourself will not take. Family is no real excuse. There are thousands of soldiers out there that have families back home. They make the sacrifice. If you are so quick to point out the lack of action in others (whether you are right or not), then you should be willing to take said action yourself. |
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| Dwayne | Nov 29 2004, 01:39 AM Post #75 |
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Profanity deleted by Hoss
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You know nothing. The first hour is critical when dealing with the severe trauma caused on the battle field. Critical care and surgury are necessary within the first hour if the severely wounded victim is to survive at all. The most likely helicopter in the Iraqi theatre carrying wounded from battle or attacks to medical facilities is the UH-60Q MEDEVAC, which has a max speed of about 150 knots. In fact the UH-60 is one of the fastest helicopter in Iraq. Kuwait City, as you suggested as a likely location for medical facilities, is 299 nm from Baghdad. At max speed it would take the UH-60 nearly 2 hours if it were able to sustain its maximum speed the whole time, and that is highly unlikely. As I said, you're full of it. |
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Whatever you say Mr. President.
:rolleyes:
3:19 AM Jul 11